Beginner Saxes Gear4music Alto Sax

[Fortyniner]

Hi, I'm very new to playing the alto sax. I'm currently renting a TJ Classic but am looking to buy a saxophone. I was interested in the Gear4music alto because it got generally good reviews but they've changed the design in the last few weeks. If you look carefully it's no longer a Yani 992 clone so existing reviews such as the one by Stephen Howard no longer apply. I've phoned them and they confirm they can no longer supply the original. Does anyone have any experience of the new one or am I back to looking for a good used Yamaha? I would have liked a nickel plated instrument because i'm not too fond of the glittery gold look. Thanks!

 

[Colin the Bear]

The gold lacquer one looks new but the nickel plate looks like the same old thing. If the pictures are right.

 

[Fortyniner]

Hi Colin, I've phoned them today and the pictures are wrong. The nickel one is the same as the gold one now.

 

[JayeNM]

Forty...it would help if you could state your price range.

So a Gear 4 new costs under £300, it appears. Now, compare that to a Trevor, which hover around £500, or a Jupiter, at around £650...then a new Buffet 100 (great horn) at around £700, then a Yamaha at £1000.

IF you have a £300 budget, this is why people recommend buying used as opposed to new. More bang for the pound....

So I guess, if your requirements are a nickel or silver horn at 300-ish, your choices are going to be limited. But you may well be able to get a far better horn than a Gear4 within that budget if you flex on the finish....

 

[Fortyniner]

Hi, thanks for the input, I'm pretty flexible on the price. What I don't want to do is buy a chinese alto that turns out to be rubbish. I fancied a Bauhaus Walstein as-pd because that has the proper point screws and I like the darker tone and the finish. If I could get a used one from a reputable source I think that would be my preferred option. I really don't like the gold look.

 

[nigeld]

Hi, thanks for the input, I'm pretty flexible on the price. What I don't want to do is buy a chinese alto that turns out to be rubbish. I fancied a Bauhaus Walstein as-pd because that has the proper point screws and I like the darker tone and the finish. If I could get a used one from a reputable source I think that would be my preferred option. I really don't like the gold look.

For Sale - Bauhaus Walstein Alto - Phosphor Bronze & Gold

Looks like it isn't the one with point screws but I have bought a sax from David, and would regard him as a reliable source.

 

[DavidUK]

For Sale - Bauhaus Walstein Alto - Phosphor Bronze & Gold

Looks like it isn't the one with point screws but I have bought a sax from David, and would regard him as a reliable source.

Thanks Nigel. It's a BW "Transitional" (very rare) in that it has the double arm keys and what look like Italian pads, but as you say it has shouldered point screws - I know, I took them all out and put them all back again two weeks ago. Having said that, there is no noticeable play in the rods or keys and the thing seems really solid. Just the odd bit of flux bleed as has been discussed before.

I've seen a couple of minty Buffet 100's sell for around £150 in the last 3-4 months on eBay. Also quire a rarity used. I guess folks think they're Evettes. Having had one I'd say it was better than my Jupiter 565/567 but not my Jericho J6 and a Yamaha 21/23/Vito/275 would also be better. Not had a G4M alto. Not a fan of TJ as my brand new TJ Raw was in and out the door in a jiffy.

If the OP wants to upgrade, I'm not sure a G4M is an upgrade from a TJ Classic, but until we know what the "new" G4M build quality is like and how it plays it's hard to be sure. Could be a while before anyone here tries one. Colin???

 

[Fortyniner]

I have rented my TJ until the end of January so I have time to keep looking. Thank you for all your inputs. I like the look and sound of the vintage saxophones but from what i have read they are not a good idea for a beginner. I think many of the modern ones sound very bright. Probably that only applies to the cheap ones!

 

[DavidUK]

If you want something not so bright, try this: For Sale - Jericho alto saxophone in gold and nickel

Review: Academy Jericho J6 alto saxophone review

I paid £150 for mine in perfect condition. I had a J6 whilst also having my SA80II. I sound very similar on both, but the J6 is 10% of the Selmer's price used.

I think £200 is just about the going rate for these 2nd hand (they were about that new, but don't let that worry you), although they don't come up very often. If it's still available, why not make an offer?

Or... let me know if you're interested in my Bauhaus. I'm guessing @Pete Thomas would prefer this to the J6 or most other cheapies too?

 

[Pete Thomas]

Hi, I'm very new to playing the alto sax. I'm currently renting a TJ Classic but am looking to buy a saxophone. I was interested in the Gear4music alto because it got generally good reviews but they've changed the design in the last few weeks. If you look carefully it's no longer a Yani 992 clone so existing reviews such as the one by Stephen Howard no longer apply. I've phoned them and they confirm they can no longer supply the original. Does anyone have any experience of the new one or am I back to looking for a good used Yamaha? I would have liked a nickel plated instrument because i'm not too fond of the glittery gold look. Thanks!

It is going to be almost impossible to know whether it is the same horn as the SH review, even when looking identical.

A company like Gear4music when sourcing instruments from China will be buying from one of the larger factories. When such factories get too busy they will outsource to one of the other factories. No doubt G4M are keeping an eye on quality to the best of their ability though.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Or... let me know if you're interested in my Bauhaus. I'm guessing @Pete Thomas would prefer this to the J6 or most other cheapies too?

It might be tough for me to choose between bauhaus and Jericho. I'd go for either above a G4M though.

 

[Stephen Howard]

It is going to be almost impossible to know whether it is the same horn as the SH review, even when looking identical.

I think it's safe to say that there's no guarantee that anything in my review of the old G4M alto will apply to the new model.
I've added a suitable update to head up the review:

"It appears that this model is no longer available (in any variant) and the whole range of Gear4Music altos has changed. As I haven't yet seen one of the new models I have no idea as to the build quality and playability, and thus none of the following review will apply to these models."

 

[Colin the Bear]

End of an era 🙁

 

[JayeNM]

I always find it kinda bizarre when a company actually produces a product which gets some postive critical review/acclaim....and then they change the product anyway.

I suppose good reviews do not translate into good bottom-line profits, of course...

 

[JayeNM]

If I may make another suggestion, perhaps more for the sake of posterity should any future readers be seeking a non-brass lacquer horn which is very reasonably priced (used)...

The Jupiter Artist 8XX series, which they made for only a few years...is a pretty darn good horn; if you are cool with silver body, brass keys look. Their prices over the past year or so have also precipitously fallen from when they first appeared (used). Dunno why because it's a lotta modern horn for the $, IMHO....I have actually had the experience of servicing several, and they sound really good, blow well, and are respectably built.

 

[JayeNM]

I have rented my TJ until the end of January so I have time to keep looking. Thank you for all your inputs. I like the look and sound of the vintage saxophones but from what i have read they are not a good idea for a beginner.

Oh, and BTW...this is pure poppycock.....quite a number of vintage models (when in good playing shape) are great horns for a beginner....

I think many of the modern ones sound very bright. Probably that only applies to the cheap ones!

Um, actually....no.....you pretty much got it right. Not just the cheap ones. Many a midpriced and expensive one, too.
It may be a generalization, but one with a good deal of merit....

 

[Fortyniner]

Would anyone venture to suggest which vintage altos in good shape would be great for a beginner.....?

 

[nigeld]

Would anyone venture to suggest which vintage altos in good shape would be great for a beginner.....?

If you are flexible on price then my suggestion for a great beginner sax would be a (modern) Yamaha YAS-280.
They cost more than others (though there are lots of second-hand ones to be had), but they are very good.

The question of whether vintage horns are good for beginners is as much a religious issue as a technical one. My own experience is that I tried a couple of vintage horns when I was starting out and quickly changed to modern ones, because I found the modern horns a lot easier to play. But other people don't have this problem.

One of the problems with buying a vintage horn (or any secondhand horn) is knowing whether it will need a lot of work to get it into good playing condition. If you are unlucky, you could spend as much getting it repaired as you did buying it. So I would personally advise against getting one unless you have someone who can check it over for you or you are getting it from someone you trust. Buying a vintage horn unseen on eBay is very risky for a beginner.

In the end, the important thing with a beginner sax, or any other sax for that matter, is that it suits you and you like it. We all have different shaped hands, and a horn that suits me may feel uncomfortable to you. And I have found that I have liked some saxes I have tried and actively disliked others. I don't know why, but it was the case. So you need to try out saxes and look for one that says "buy me".

 

[JayeNM]

I agree 100%. My opinion has always been that when an old horn is properly set up and serviced, it's absolutely fine for a beginner. I also feel that not all 'modern keywork' horns, simply because they are a knockoff in some fashion or another of a Selmer-style or yada-yada...are necessarily "better" for a student.

No, not all vintage horns fit my category, but can think of a good 7 or 8 models for beginners on a budget which are actually as appropriate a starter horn as any Yama, etc student model....and by appropriate I mean: good ergos, responsive keywork, reliable build and mechanics (actually in this category one can argue many a vintage has the upper hand), and good intonation.

My point was vintage is often dismissed by many...outright...without the seeker even having experienced a few; yet I am not certain those dismissals are necessarily valid just because a player may have played a few older horns (which may or may not have been set up properly)

There are certainly models out there, was all I am sayin'. So they shouldn't be dismissed outright.

 

[JayeNM]

Would anyone venture to suggest which vintage altos in good shape would be great for a beginner.....?

Off the top of my head, here's a few:

Martin Indiana.
King Cleveland, the ones made in Cleveland, not Eastlake.
Vito, France...Noblet.... or Vito, Kenosha USA Model 37
Buescher Aristocrats, pre-Selmer buyout.
Conn 7M
Conn 5M
Conn 24 or 25M
King Empire
King 2416/2414
Some Rampone-Cazzani 70's-80's stencils (Oxford, Haynes-Schwelm, etc. I have one up on my website...)
Kohlert Bixley
Kohlert 55
JK New King stencils
Evette-Schaeffers made by Santoni, Italy
Grassi "Jade"

I have sold many of these to young beginners and adult beginners alike, and folks have been quite happy with them over the years.

When serviced and adjusted properly...all well built, intonationally solid, free blowing, comfortable for most, and overall just user-friendly.