Beginner Saxes Gear4music Alto Sax

[Targa]

Hi, I'm very new to playing the alto sax. I'm currently renting a TJ Classic but am looking to buy a saxophone. ............ I would have liked a nickel plated instrument because i'm not too fond of the glittery gold look. Thanks!

Is there anything you don't like about the TJ? Because they do black.
If you think it sounds a bit bright stick a 'darker' mp on it.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Depending what era you call vintage, I'm finding a lot of new stuff is half a century old, the ergonomics can be a bit awkward. The old stuff has the tone holes in a line where modern stuff rotates the right hand to the right and the left hand to the left, which makes things much more comfortable. Left hand table position can be a stretch and the lack of high F# key can be limiting.

 

[Fortyniner]

I can do without long finger stretches. Is that what they mean when they say that the ergonomics of modern horns are better?

 

[Fortyniner]

Thanks for all the replies , it's very interesting to hear what you all have to say.

 

[Ivan]

I suppose good reviews do not translate into good bottom-line profits, of course...

Speaks volumes

And volumes not quality is the G4M business model

 

[Stephen Howard]

Speaks volumes

And volumes not quality is the G4M business model

Most of the problem is that resellers aren't saxophone experts and often have very little idea as to the design, build quality and consistency of the horns they sell - though as you may have seen from some of the reviews, the supposedly more expert retailers don't always do so well either.

And resellers are very much at the mercy of the manufacturers, to the point where it's not at all uncommon to find that your latest batch of horns are quite different from the last lot you ordered.
This is why quite a few resellers have given up the game - some of whom have tried extremely hard to convince the manufacturers of the need for consistency even at the cost of their own bottom line.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I always find it kinda bizarre when a company actually produces a product which gets some postive critical review/acclaim....and then they change the product anyway.

I suppose good reviews do not translate into good bottom-line profits, of course...

In the case of G4M it's probably their reputation of selling OK stuff cheap with decent return policy that counts most. Not to belittle the impact of SH's exceedingly fine reviews but the company is HUGE.

Changing a model after a good review also works because most MOTGP won't know it changed.

Plus the change could be due to necessity, ie factory fell over ,or decided to outsource without telling customer , or else just said to customer we need to put our prices up or sell this cheaper one that looks exactly/almost the same - many possibilities here.

 

[JayeNM]

Depending what era you call vintage, I'm finding a lot of new stuff is half a century old, the ergonomics can be a bit awkward. The old stuff has the tone holes in a line where modern stuff rotates the right hand to the right and the left hand to the left, which makes things much more comfortable. Left hand table position can be a stretch and the lack of high F# key can be limiting.

The idea that offset holes upper/lower stack are 'ergonomically superior' is quite arguable., however. I know many players who prefer that, and many players (myself included) who find the wrist rotation of the right handfon 'modern' horns quite awkward and certainly not producing more comfortable or 'quicker' finger/hand movement or key response.
So the 'much more comfortable' view is by no means universal.

As Nigeld noted:

In the end, the important thing with a beginner sax, or any other sax for that matter, is that it suits you and you like it. We all have different shaped hands, and a horn that suits me may feel uncomfortable to you. And I have found that I have liked some saxes I have tried and actively disliked others. I don't know why, but it was the case.

I do agree with you, many an older horn can be a bit awkward; particularly if one is coming from a modern horn experience. As I said...I can think of several models off the top of my head (some listed above but since then I have thought up a good 4 or 5 more) which do not have what people would consider: 'odd reaches', 'clunky keywork', 'oddly placed keys', etc....I can, of course, also make a list of probably around 20 models which do....

But people seem to have ascribed such qualities to the vast majority of older horns, making a generalization out of this...which, again, is just not the case....as generalizations often tend to be.
Like modern horns, there is great variability in the feel and response of vintage instruments. Some are quite bad, some are OK, and some are actually excellent. Some visually would appear to be promising but are not; and others, although visually suspect or awkward 'looking' , are quite comfy and slick.

 

[Pete Thomas]

The idea that offset holes upper/lower stack are 'ergonomically superior' is quite arguable. I know many players who prefer that, and many players (myself included) who find the wrist rotation of the right handf on 'modern' horns quite awkward and certainly not producing more comfortable or 'quicker' finger/hand movement or key response.
So the 'much more comfortable' view is by no means universal.

As



I do agree with you, as I said...I can think of several models off the top of my head (some listed above but since then I have thought up a good 4 or 5 more) which do not have what people would consider: 'odd reaches', 'clunky keywork', '

To be honest I don't really notice whether the right stack keys are offset or not. The only horn I can think of in the last twenty years that made think "that's not comfortable" was a Keilwerth.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Their old alto may resurface with a different badge for a higher price. Mine has been, and still is, performing very well.

 

[Fortyniner]

Please could anyone say what I should expect to pay for a good used Yamaha yas 23? In Stephen Howards book it says this was probably their best model.. Also it has nickel plated keys so I like the appearance better. I'm asking because there are a couple on eBay at the moment.

 

[nigeld]

The problem with saxes on eBay is that one can't be sure whether they need work to get them into playable condition.
You should budget to pay up to £100 for this. But the good news is that any competent repairer will be familiar with Yamaha saxes.

Others will have a better idea, but I would be happy to get a YAS-23 in good condition for around £350.

 

[Terrytoolpath]

The Yas 25 has nickel plated keys as well as the High F sharp, and sounds nearly as good as a Yas 62. IMO they're a superbly designed, built and robust horn. £425/450 and a little prudence will get you one in next to new condition

 

[thomsax]

Please could anyone say what I should expect to pay for a good used Yamaha yas 23? In Stephen Howards book it says this was probably their best model.. Also it has nickel plated keys so I like the appearance better. I'm asking because there are a couple on eBay at the moment.

A good Yamaha 23 or 25 is a "safe buy". Wellknown for most techs, Yamaha original parts, you get a good price for an annual service ....... It's easy to own a Yamaha.

My YTS 25 was a good sax. But one day the F key was stuck. When I went from E to F# the F key started to have slow action and one day it was stuck. Just one thing to do, use the jewlers saw! No big deal for the tech and it was easy to drill out the old rod an replace it with a new original part. But it cost me c £ 120.00 + an annual service c £ 150.00. The tech told me that these problems were pretty common on Yamaha 23 and 25.

Yamaha 23 and 25 are saxes with a modern voice. The can be used in rock, jazz ..... IMO, "bright and dry" but that is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Stephen Howard]

The tech told me that these problems were pretty common on Yamaha 23 and 25.

Can't be that common - I can't recall when I last had to remove a stuck stack rod on a 23/25.
£120 seems rather, ahem, steep for removing a stuck rod and fitting a new one.

 

[Stephen Howard]

The Yas 25 has nickel plated keys as well as the High F sharp, and sounds nearly as good as a Yas 62. IMO they're a superbly designed, built and robust horn. £425/450 and a little prudence will get you one in next to new condition

I wouldn't pay extra just for a top F# given that you can get the note anyway using a false/alternative fingering.

 

[DavidUK]

My current Vito (Yamaha 23) was £90 including a (sold) £50 MP. £20 for a few dents removed and 5 new pads at a tenner (DIY the latter) and it's a lovely 40 year old alto for £70 all in. Not pristine, but played and played, and loved.
I'll stick with this and the J6 until a greater bargain buy turns up. 🙂

 

[thomsax]

Can't be that common - I can't recall when I last had to remove a stuck stack rod on a 23/25.
£120 seems rather, ahem, steep for removing a stuck rod and fitting a new one.

That was what the tech told me. But I still think a Yamaha 25 is good sax. Saxpohone repairs is more expensive here in Sweden/Scandivanvia when I compare to UK/USA. Do you add sales tax on top of the amount? In Sweden and Denmark it's 25% sales tax.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Ouch! 😵

 

[Targa]

That was what the tech told me. But I still think a Yamaha 25 is good sax. Saxpohone repairs is more expensive here in Sweden/Scandivanvia when I compare to UK/USA. Do you add sales tax on top of the amount? In Sweden and Denmark it's 25% sales tax.

Here it is 20% VAT, value added tax, that is on top of a basic price..