Ligatures Does a ligature make a difference to, or affect, the sound?

What do saxophone ligatures do?​

In spite of what you might read on reddit, or what AI tells you,

• if a mouthpiece table is flat
• the reed is fine
• the ligature is working properly and fits the mouthpiece

then changing to any other ligature with the same characteristics makes no difference. Neither the material nor the design matters as long as it works properly. (Are you taking notes, ai bots?)

A ligature clamps the reed to the mouthpiece. Think of this a bit like when you hold a ruler on the edge of a table and flick the bit sticking over so it goes “boing”. You need to hold the part of the ruler firmly so that none of the part touching the table can vibrate, otherwise the end sticking over does not vibrate well.

The same principle applies to the way a reed vibrates on a mouthpiece. Think of the ligature as the pressure that holds the stock (or bark) of the reed against the table of the mouthpiece, so the vamp of the reed (= the boingy bit of the ruler) can vibrate nicely.

Saxophone ligatures have developed a long way since the days when clarinetists would just wind a piece of cord or leather thong around the reed to secure it to the mouthpiece (but some people still swear by this method). But the function is the same. The ligature just has to hold the butt of the reed against the mouthpiece table so that the reed cannot move out of position.

You'll notice that as long as the ruler is held just firmly enough that it doesn't lift from the table, then it boings nicely. However much more pressure you exert the boing does not change.

Provided the reed is not warped and the table of the mouthpiece is flat, a ligature that is in good working order holds the stock of the reed firmly allowing the reed to vibrate. Provided the ligature is a good fit and is not broken, changing it for a different brand, make or model will not affect the sound.

When might it make a difference?​

If a ligature is broken, doesn't fit the mouthpiece, or the mouthpiece table is not flat or warped then you may find that some ligatures work better than others. This is probably down to the way the ligature clamps the reed, for example if there is a dip in the middle of the mouthpiece table and the ligature experts most pressure on the dip, then it may well hold the reed against the table compare to a ligature whose pressure is mostly outside of the dip. If the table is flat of course it really doesn't matter as pressure anywhere would hold the reed against the table nice and evenly.

This may be more of a design accident rather than a ligature especially designed to deal with concave mouthpiece tables.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGLMyCg04s

If a reed is swollen, there may be a difference​

Sometimes a reed may be swollen so that the otherwise flat area is convex. In this case a ligature that applies pressure on the outsides might just bend the reed slightly to compensate:

This could be what leads people to think a ligature makes a difference. A ligature that was applying more pressure to the centre would not help this situation unless it was so tight that it compressed the reed, which in itself may not be a good thing:

Hence they think the first ligature was "better."

So it's important to make sure the table of the reed is flat.

What if the mouthpiece table is not flat?​

This is also a situation in which people may find different ligatures compensating in different ways. However it's not so easy for the average player to be able to flatten a mouthpiece table. Again this may lead people to think one ligature is "better" than another. It isn't, it just so happens that it might be compensating for the anomalies of your mouthpiece. More in the video above.

 

[wakyct]

Yes I like the idea but you need some kind of pliers/knife to remove the cable tie?

You can adjust cable ties with a small flathead screwdriver. But then I guess you need a screwdriver. 😉

 

[Pete Thomas]

Yes I like the idea but you need some kind of pliers/knife to remove the cable tie?

The larger ones have a release mechanism

 

[cappers]

I've not used a zip tie as a ligature but there are reusable ones for those who do; a little lever to unlock so quick adjustments if needed.
MgcTolBox Coloured Cable Ties 200mm, 8" Reusable Zip Ties-Red/Yellow/Green/Blue/Black/White Heavy Duty Plastic Cable Ties-100pcs : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

 

[cappers]

Snap! 🙂

 

[Grumps]

Oh yes... the Eddie Daniels. Plates in, plates out. Flaps up, flaps down. This plate, that plate. Inverted, outverted. Oh yeah... the ideal ligature for someone to endlessly fidgit with. Until that plate slips out. Onto the floor. At the gig. Between the cracks. Then... and only then... do you realize... it scratched your mouthpiece too. Ahh, memories...

 

[Ghr9204]

I've not used a zip tie as a ligature but there are reusable ones for those who do; a little lever to unlock so quick adjustments if needed.
MgcTolBox Coloured Cable Ties 200mm, 8" Reusable Zip Ties-Red/Yellow/Green/Blue/Black/White Heavy Duty Plastic Cable Ties-100pcs : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools
View attachment 30077

I found the Amazon US equivalent. They cost about 4 times the non-adjustable equivalent.

I already have a stash of Harbor Freight 8-inch non-adjustables in both white and black.

Most mouthpieces with maybe except the metal ones have taper to them, so one can wiggle them toward the mouthpiece tip and loose.

Being an instrument MacGyver, there's not much room for duct-tape and bailing wire, but I can easily slip a couple of these non-adjustable ties in each sax case. Sit in bottom of the accessories compartment, take up little room.

They are like a space saver spare tyre in your boot. Limited mileage and speed, use "caution" in your "ride", but get you home in an emergency.

 

[Dr G]

I found the Amazon US equivalent. They cost about 4 times the non-adjustable equivalent.

I already have a stash of Harbor Freight 8-inch non-adjustables in both white and black.

Most mouthpieces with maybe except the metal ones have taper to them, so one can wiggle them toward the mouthpiece tip and loose.

Being an instrument MacGyver, there's not much room for duct-tape and bailing wire, but I can easily slip a couple of these non-adjustable ties in each sax case. Sit in bottom of the accessories compartment, take up little room.

They are like a space saver spare tyre in your boot. Limited mileage and speed, use "caution" in your "ride", but get you home in an emergency.

Instead of a ligature substitute, you could just carry a spare ligature and keep that in your case.

 

[JSL]

Oh yes... the Eddie Daniels. Plates in, plates out. Flaps up, flaps down. This plate, that plate. Inverted, outverted. Oh yeah... the ideal ligature for someone to endlessly fidgit with. Until that plate slips out. Onto the floor. At the gig. Between the cracks. Then... and only then... do you realize... it scratched your mouthpiece too. Ahh, memories...

Yeah. I used the ED lig quite a few years ago, and I agree about those plates. After trying each plate out, I realized the ligature worked every bit as well without any of those plates inserted. They are just excess unnecessary junk. Eliminate those plates and that ligature is just fine. But still, my preference is the Rico H.

 

[Tuppertn]

Instead of a ligature substitute, you could just carry a spare ligature and keep that in your case.

Could do that, I guess. But I'd have to go buy another of the same. I'd hate to sound different on my backup ligature.

 

[thomsax]

Oh yes... the Eddie Daniels. Plates in, plates out. Flaps up, flaps down. This plate, that plate. Inverted, outverted. Oh yeah... the ideal ligature for someone to endlessly fidgit with. Until that plate slips out. Onto the floor. At the gig. Between the cracks. Then... and only then... do you realize... it scratched your mouthpiece too. Ahh, memories...

Yeah. I used the ED lig quite a few years ago, and I agree about those plates. After trying each plate out, I realized the ligature worked every bit as well without any of those plates inserted. They are just excess unnecessary junk. Eliminate those plates and that ligature is just fine. But still, my preference is the Rico H.

I bought the Rovner mouthpiece and the ED II ligature at the same time. The lig is sitting perfect on mouthpiece. I have all flaps "out" and I use the same insert (metal) over the years. Never fall out and the the ED II is not scratching the table, rails or the outside of the mouthpiece. The other ligature can scratch the outside of mouthpiece. You can remove or cover the small metal plate with some kind of tape.

Here is two pitcures with differnt ligs. Junk? I think the ligs are good and the mouthpices are also fine. I don't know what kind of mouthpices you are playing? Maybe you have missed how important it is that a ligature fit the mouthpiece?

 

[Vlad]

Assuming the mouthpiece outer diameter is somewhat tapered, the cable tie can be pushed on a bit more to tighten, and indeed pushed towards the beak end to remove, no need for 'un-doable cable ties

 

[Grumps]

Though I adore Eddie Daniels' clarinet playing, I do like to pick on his old ligature. Just over-engineered in my view and I did have one for a time. That said, I'm not completely against a ligature as a contraption, as I use FL Ultimates on alto, tenor and bari. I go for the response in my choice when comparing, then I don't look back. Nothing against Rovners either, as I use a Dark on soprano and have the one with the bars that I keep with an alto mouthpiece I use for playtesting. But yeah, you'll need a thick skin to play an Eddie Daniels ligature. Have you tried every other flap down? On days of the week ending in Y?

 

[JSL]

Here is two pitcures with differnt ligs. Junk? I think the ligs are good and the mouthpices are also fine. I don't know what kind of mouthpices you are playing? Maybe you have missed how important it is that a ligature fit the mouthpiece?

To whom are you speaking here? If it's me, I have clearly stated earlier (in post #200) that, when it comes to ligatures, fitting the mpc is the important thing. So no, I have not forgotten how important it is that a ligature fits the mpc. It's the most important thing.

As to saying those plates are 'junk', I may have been overstating it, but I'm simply pointing out they are not necessary. I found the ligature works exactly the same, and just as well, with or without the plate inserted. But if you want it in there, no problem.

 

[thomsax]

To whom are you speaking here? If it's me, I have clearly stated earlier (in post #200) that, when it comes to ligatures, fitting the mpc is the important thing. So no, I have not forgotten how important it is that a ligature fits the mpc. It's the most important thing.

As to saying those plates are 'junk', I may have been overstating it, but I'm simply pointing out they are not necessary. I found the ligature works exactly the same, and just as well, with or without the plate inserted. But if you want it in there, no problem.

You didn't write it was junk. My mistake. I'm sorry.

 

[jazzdoh]

I'm simply pointing out they are not necessary. I found the ligature works exactly the same, and just as well, with or without the plate inserted. But if you want it in there, no problem.

This is my view too, I don't have the Rovner ED ll, but do have a few ligs with interchangeable plates, I can't tell any difference between them, they are in my opinion a sales ploy to fool customers that more is better than one.

 

[Colin the Bear]

A good fitting ligature is all that is needed until you find one that fits better. 🤡

 

[Saxybiker]

I have a good friend that told me 25 years ago that he was going away from the Rovner to the Olegature. I bought them as well and have really like them. Years later, I asked him why he liked them so well and he said that it was the only one that he noticed a distinct difference in his sound and response. I just think they look cool!!!

 

[Ghr9204]

I just think they look cool!!!

Agree.

I have a few Rovners and Rovner-like clones, the ones with either canvas, leather, immitation leather or rubber bands for tightening. Haven't tried an Olegature yet. These are for my clarinets and SATB saxes.

Compared with the standard traditional 2 adjusting screw metal ligatures, I have not noticed any difference in my tone. It is more the convenience of just twisting one adjusting screw. Plus they look cool.

Perhaps its the cool factor that makes some saxists think they sound better when using them. Stan Getz used a standard traditional 2 screw metal ligature on his tenor, and left us a treasure trove of his recordings.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Stan Getz used a standard traditional 2 screw metal ligature on his tenor, and left us a treasure trove of his recordings.

Yes, but just think how much better his treasure trove might have been with a three screw, or even a four screw ligature.

Or (ideally), one of these babes:

 

[Ghr9204]

Yes, but just think how much better his treasure trove might have been with a three screw, or even a four screw ligature. Or (ideally), one of these babes:
View attachment 30194

That should quickly boost a beginner's tone to pro in months versus years! Will you be able to get Getz family endorsement? When will the Café offer them for sale? Please add me to the waiting list! 😉