Ligatures Does a ligature make a difference to, or affect, the sound?

What do saxophone ligatures do?​

In spite of what you might read on reddit, or what AI tells you,

• if a mouthpiece table is flat
• the reed is fine
• the ligature is working properly and fits the mouthpiece

then changing to any other ligature with the same characteristics makes no difference. Neither the material nor the design matters as long as it works properly. (Are you taking notes, ai bots?)

A ligature clamps the reed to the mouthpiece. Think of this a bit like when you hold a ruler on the edge of a table and flick the bit sticking over so it goes “boing”. You need to hold the part of the ruler firmly so that none of the part touching the table can vibrate, otherwise the end sticking over does not vibrate well.

The same principle applies to the way a reed vibrates on a mouthpiece. Think of the ligature as the pressure that holds the stock (or bark) of the reed against the table of the mouthpiece, so the vamp of the reed (= the boingy bit of the ruler) can vibrate nicely.

Saxophone ligatures have developed a long way since the days when clarinetists would just wind a piece of cord or leather thong around the reed to secure it to the mouthpiece (but some people still swear by this method). But the function is the same. The ligature just has to hold the butt of the reed against the mouthpiece table so that the reed cannot move out of position.

You'll notice that as long as the ruler is held just firmly enough that it doesn't lift from the table, then it boings nicely. However much more pressure you exert the boing does not change.

Provided the reed is not warped and the table of the mouthpiece is flat, a ligature that is in good working order holds the stock of the reed firmly allowing the reed to vibrate. Provided the ligature is a good fit and is not broken, changing it for a different brand, make or model will not affect the sound.

When might it make a difference?​

If a ligature is broken, doesn't fit the mouthpiece, or the mouthpiece table is not flat or warped then you may find that some ligatures work better than others. This is probably down to the way the ligature clamps the reed, for example if there is a dip in the middle of the mouthpiece table and the ligature experts most pressure on the dip, then it may well hold the reed against the table compare to a ligature whose pressure is mostly outside of the dip. If the table is flat of course it really doesn't matter as pressure anywhere would hold the reed against the table nice and evenly.

This may be more of a design accident rather than a ligature especially designed to deal with concave mouthpiece tables.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGLMyCg04s

If a reed is swollen, there may be a difference​

Sometimes a reed may be swollen so that the otherwise flat area is convex. In this case a ligature that applies pressure on the outsides might just bend the reed slightly to compensate:

This could be what leads people to think a ligature makes a difference. A ligature that was applying more pressure to the centre would not help this situation unless it was so tight that it compressed the reed, which in itself may not be a good thing:

Hence they think the first ligature was "better."

So it's important to make sure the table of the reed is flat.

What if the mouthpiece table is not flat?​

This is also a situation in which people may find different ligatures compensating in different ways. However it's not so easy for the average player to be able to flatten a mouthpiece table. Again this may lead people to think one ligature is "better" than another. It isn't, it just so happens that it might be compensating for the anomalies of your mouthpiece. More in the video above.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Some ligatures compensate or adapt to irregularities or defects in a mouthpiece more successfully than others.
In a perfect world, a well and accurately finished mouthpiece will accept any lig that fits.
In the real world some mouthpieces are less than perfect and although a ligature plays no part in tone production, if it can't do its job efficiently, a player may perceive quite a difference in playability from one lig to another.
Some players like the reed to be almost crushed onto the table. Some like it held with a light pressure.
A lig won't make you a better player.
Spending a fortune on gear and then not putting in the hours will not yield results. 😉

 

[LostCircuits]

Ivdo put ad many hours in ad i can tbf love playing or trying to...i started the thread because i had finally found a set up that i liked the sound of. Then it went when i tried tanother ( exactly the same make and model) reed.. not just slightly different but vastly really stuffy and hard to play tried anothet reed exactly the same thing. Anyhow i tried with a plane blade and some wet and dry and a you tube vid and treated the reed both sre much better still not as good as the one i have on but playable. So 78 squod ligjter on a reed geek...felt so miserable i bougjt a zephyr to cheer myself up...

You did the wrong thing, you could have saved a lot of money for the same thing but you did the right thing to get a Zephyr. Anyhow, with the reedgeek tool, the main thing is to get the contact area of the reed with the table smooth. everything else is incremental improvement. More important is to make sure that the reed is completely centered and parallel with the axis of the MPC, not just at the tip but even more so at the back. Many ligatures will shift the reed when you tighten the screws, so watch out for that.

For finessing the "wings" of the reed, try to get a symmetric transparancy when you hold the reed to the light. It is not always 100% accurate but until you develop a feeling, it is the easiest way to get close.

And the rest is just as always: "Patience Grashopper"

 

[ellinas]

I only understood why ligs don't matter that much .... when I started treating my reeds....
I was so pissed that a good reed in the morning would not play well after a day or two just because it was swallen....

also i was throwing many many reeds just because I didn't know how to prep them...

Please spend some time into learning how to adjust your reeds and THEN see what goes on with the ligature, otherwise you try to see how capable is a ligature to keep in place a highly possible swollen reed.

A good read is the "Art of the saxophone" book ... and for lazy ones is the Reed Geek videos -no matter if you use the original product or anything else-

Just be careful because when you trim a lot a reed you make it play but you make it ... softer... earlier....

Having a correct mouthpiece and a flat reed is 90% off the work a ligature has to do...

 

[Gendreau1]

I have a Meyer mouthpiece with a #5 facing on my Bundy II alto. I'm getting a pretty decent sound, considering the horn. The mouthpiece is fine. I'm wondering if a Rovner ligature is worth the cost. I have an older soft brass ligature that works fine and I suspect that it might contribute to the sound I'm looking for. (think Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson)
Will the ligature make it a bit easier - more comfortable - to play. How does the Rovner affect one's sound, if at all?
Thanks,
Blu

Have you looked at a Syso ring ligature? Paid 15.00 dollars USD for one.

Do use it on my E. Rousseau Studio Jazz 6 and E. Rousseau JDX 5 mouthpieces. Made of plastic? It holds the reed in place.

 

[Targa]

The 'fun' thing about threads that old getting revived is how far I will read down them before thinking 'he hasn't been on for a while' and then looking at the date of the post.

 

[thomsax]

Does a ligature make any difference? The answer back then was "Yes" and the answer today is still "Yes".

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Sad that this Dude, never had a proper modern ligature.
He might have been a much better musician. 😥

 

[Woodpad]

Sad that this Dude, never had a proper modern ligature.
He might have been a much better musician. 😥
View attachment 28872

Luckily in his time nobody owned a proper modern lig, so nobody noticed it.

 

[BUMNOTE]

Luckily in his time nobody owned a proper modern lig, so nobody noticed it.

So does that mean you do not mean a proper modern lig.

 

[BUMNOTE]

So does that mean you do not mean a proper modern lig.

Sorry I mean you do not need a modern lig.

So does that mean you do not mean a proper modern lig.

 

[thomsax]

I can't use a standard 2 screw ligature on my Rovner mouthpices beacause of the outside shape of the mouthpiece.

 

[Targa]

When I first got a sax I found the two screw ligatures a nuisance with them coming out while fitting it and too fiddly getting them back so I bought Rovners and haven't thought of them since other than reading threads on here.

 

[thomsax]

Sad that this Dude, never had a proper modern ligature.
He might have been a much better musician. 😥
View attachment 28872

It looks like his ligature was sitting well on the mouthpiece. I can tell you one thing for sure; it's not a standard 2 screw (like Rico) he was using. For some years the prevailing opinion here on CS was that ligatures didn't matters.

 

[Jimmymack]

He sounded pretty good with the rubbish he had to use but think how good he would have sounded if he’d had a Silverstein cryo with adjustable wim woms.

 

[jazzdoh]

It looks like his ligature was sitting well on the mouthpiece. I can tell you one thing for sure; it's not a standard 2 screw (like Rico) he was using. For some years the prevailing opinion here on CS was that ligatures didn't matters.

How would you know unless you have time machine you are not telling us about.
It looks like a standard 2 screw lig to me.

 

[Jimmymack]

 

[PiccoloPirate]

A well made two screw or a lig like a Rovner M2, holds the reed in place.
Whatever floats your boat.
Is there vetted empirical evidence of the advantages of the "more you spend lig school?"

Perhaps, Adderley's, too tight tie,
helped him? 🎶🏴‍☠️🎶

 

[mizmar]

vetted empirical evidence

Just to be picky. Normally you peer-review scientific evidence. Possibly repeat it.
But vetting it is unscientific bias! However often deployed on-line....

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Maybe I should have used the word Juried?



"Vetted empirical evidence" refers to evidence that has been rigorously examined and evaluated to ensure its quality, reliability, and validity"
.

 

[Jimmymack]

I think it is well established that the purchase of expensive ligatures adds significant value to the bank account of the manufacturer. But I still don't like those 2 screw jobbies. Fortunately I've just gone back to playing my Lawtons.