Ligatures Does a ligature make a difference to, or affect, the sound?

What do saxophone ligatures do?​

In spite of what you might read on reddit, or what AI tells you,

• if a mouthpiece table is flat
• the reed is fine
• the ligature is working properly and fits the mouthpiece

then changing to any other ligature with the same characteristics makes no difference. Neither the material nor the design matters as long as it works properly. (Are you taking notes, ai bots?)

A ligature clamps the reed to the mouthpiece. Think of this a bit like when you hold a ruler on the edge of a table and flick the bit sticking over so it goes “boing”. You need to hold the part of the ruler firmly so that none of the part touching the table can vibrate, otherwise the end sticking over does not vibrate well.

The same principle applies to the way a reed vibrates on a mouthpiece. Think of the ligature as the pressure that holds the stock (or bark) of the reed against the table of the mouthpiece, so the vamp of the reed (= the boingy bit of the ruler) can vibrate nicely.

Saxophone ligatures have developed a long way since the days when clarinetists would just wind a piece of cord or leather thong around the reed to secure it to the mouthpiece (but some people still swear by this method). But the function is the same. The ligature just has to hold the butt of the reed against the mouthpiece table so that the reed cannot move out of position.

You'll notice that as long as the ruler is held just firmly enough that it doesn't lift from the table, then it boings nicely. However much more pressure you exert the boing does not change.

Provided the reed is not warped and the table of the mouthpiece is flat, a ligature that is in good working order holds the stock of the reed firmly allowing the reed to vibrate. Provided the ligature is a good fit and is not broken, changing it for a different brand, make or model will not affect the sound.

When might it make a difference?​

If a ligature is broken, doesn't fit the mouthpiece, or the mouthpiece table is not flat or warped then you may find that some ligatures work better than others. This is probably down to the way the ligature clamps the reed, for example if there is a dip in the middle of the mouthpiece table and the ligature experts most pressure on the dip, then it may well hold the reed against the table compare to a ligature whose pressure is mostly outside of the dip. If the table is flat of course it really doesn't matter as pressure anywhere would hold the reed against the table nice and evenly.

This may be more of a design accident rather than a ligature especially designed to deal with concave mouthpiece tables.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGLMyCg04s

If a reed is swollen, there may be a difference​

Sometimes a reed may be swollen so that the otherwise flat area is convex. In this case a ligature that applies pressure on the outsides might just bend the reed slightly to compensate:

This could be what leads people to think a ligature makes a difference. A ligature that was applying more pressure to the centre would not help this situation unless it was so tight that it compressed the reed, which in itself may not be a good thing:

Hence they think the first ligature was "better."

So it's important to make sure the table of the reed is flat.

What if the mouthpiece table is not flat?​

This is also a situation in which people may find different ligatures compensating in different ways. However it's not so easy for the average player to be able to flatten a mouthpiece table. Again this may lead people to think one ligature is "better" than another. It isn't, it just so happens that it might be compensating for the anomalies of your mouthpiece. More in the video above.

 

[eb424]

Thanks wonko i do for some reason agree the two screwed types seem an easier blow.. dont know if its because you can adjust both screws or the placement of the screw on the reed... it wasnt so much the effect on tone..

 

[Adrian63]

I honestly don't know is the answer : but a little food for thought ?
If it absolutely makes no difference then why do most of us spend fifty quid on one instead of using one of the many two screws we have in the box....

 

[nigeld]

For some people, the ligature doesn't seem to make a difference, but it matters quite a lot to me.
I can hear the difference between different ligatures, and frankly I don't care whether other people can because if one ligature makes me feel more comfortable then that's sufficient reason to use it.

But I draw the line at impractical ligatures, such as Marc Jean and Olegature, even if they sound good. (I have one of each, but they are too much bother to use, so they mostly stay in my "unused" box.)

 

[jazzdoh]

My personal view is that I can't tell any difference in the sound between a dozen of ligaturers that I own, but my hearing is not the best.
Go with one that fits and holds the reed well, thats the priority and if you happen to like the look of the lig well that's a bonus,

 

[jazzdoh]

But I draw the line at impractical ligatures, such as Marc Jean and Olegature, even if they sound good. (I have one of each, but they are too much bother to use, so they mostly stay in my "unused" box.)

Out of interest what's wrong with the Marc Jean, I own the mark one for tenor and use it on my PPT and its a fine lig thats fits well and is like many 2 screw ligs practical and ease to use.

 

[JayeNM]

I think an 'argument' one hears re fancy ligs has more to do with blowing response than tone. At east this is what I hear from some advanced players. Ligs designed to provide a secure mounting to the mouthpiece while allowing more vibration or what-not of the reed which ostensibly 'improves' the blowing response.
Anyways, that's the usual 'hook' argument....

 

[nigeld]

But I draw the line at impractical ligatures, such as Marc Jean and Olegature, even if they sound good. (I have one of each, but they are too much bother to use, so they mostly stay in my "unused" box.)

Out of interest what's wrong with the Marc Jean, I own the mark one for tenor and use it on my PPT and its a fine lig thats fits well and is like many 2 screw ligs practical and ease to use.

I agree, it's a plain 2 screw that just fits very very well. Obviously if you have the wrong one for your mouthpiece it won't be so good.

The Marc Jean I have is single-screw. It’s big, and doesn’t come with a mouthpiece cap. I find it impossible to adjust the mouthpiece on the cork without the ligature slipping.

 

[jazzdoh]

The Marc Jean I have is single-screw. It’s big, and doesn’t come with a mouthpiece cap. I find it impossible to adjust the mouthpiece on the cork without the ligature slipping.

I've not tried the new mark 2 for me its too expensive, but the mark one doesn't slip and does come with a cap.
I have said before that some manufacturers are charging premium prices for ligs and then selling caps separately which I think is disgraceful.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Marc Jean:

 

[nigeld]

Marc Jean:

View attachment 16226

I think that's the Mk1 version. Here's mine:

 

[BuescherBob]

Just bought an Ed pillinger mouthpiece bronzite for tenor sax i currently play a tj raw.. I really like the piece its dark but has some projection. In my head i have always found that the standard two nut type uf lig play easier for me than the single leather type. Could a lig or the loss (or addition) of a locking screw really make a difference. I'm still learning and seem to find bottom C and the pinky cluster notes are easier to hit with the 2 screw variety...

First I love Ed Pillinger's mouthpieces. I've been using them for years on alto and tenor. Also, he's a great guy and a pleasure to do business with. As for the ligature question, Most importantly the Ligature must fit the mouthpiece properly, after that its trial and error. I've found that certain ligatures work better on certain mouthpieces and reed combinations. It likely has to do with the fit as mentioned and then the pressure applied to the reed that promotes a very good seal between the reed and mouthpiece. Every ligature will apply pressure in a different way and as a result certain ligatures will work better or worse on different setups. Find what responds best for you.

 

[thomsax]

For me a ligature that that just hold the reeds on the sides of stock works best. I use a Rovner Ed Daniels but I have other ligs that is designed in the same way,

The ligature to the left is best for me.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Is that not the same lig. the other way up? I use a textile lig. like the one on the left. Regardless of which side the screw ends up.

 

[thomsax]

Is that not the same lig. the other way up? I use a textile lig. like the one on the left. Regardless of which side the screw ends up.

The Rovner Star (left) is not working on my mouthpieces if turn it upside down. It doesn't hold the reed in a good way. The design is meant to to be the screw up. The Rovner Lite lig is not working with the screw down. So the ligatures matters for me.

 

[LostCircuits]

There are differences but they mostly stem from lig A being slightly longer/shorter than lig B, which most of the time will result in a shift of the contact area. Also, some ligatures just suck, cut in the reed etc. which changes the reed. I think the goal of a ligature should be to provide uniform pressure on the reed to establish a good seal without physically changing the reed by notching or warping it.

 

[Jazz Is All]

As Pete and a few others have said, it makes not one whit of difference unless you think that heavy mass screws, nuts, bolts and dingle balls on your horn do something to your sound. My suggestion in that case is to get a Le Freque first and then find a matching pair of earrings.

No seriously, find the YouTube video by the guy who played his horn with everything imaginable to substitute for a lig from a rubber band to duct tape and you'll hear the proof that the whole lig thing is a marketing scam. I used to use rubber O rings I got at the hardware store and they worked great. All a lig does is hold the reed down on the table. Period. It does not contribute anything sonc or acoustical to the sound the setup produces.

 

[CliveMA]

The EchoMaster 2 screw ligatures have a generous amount of threading on the screws, which makes them more flexible than other ligatures to fit mouthpieces of different diameters.

Not cheap but may be the only lig you need for your mouthpiece family.

GetaSax Echo Master Brilhart Style Saxophone Ligature Review

GetaSax Echo Master Brilhart Style Saxophone Ligature Review

www.neffmusic.com

 

[LostCircuits]

As Pete and a few others have said, it makes not one whit of difference unless you think that heavy mass screws, nuts, bolts and dingle balls on your horn do something to your sound. My suggestion in that case is to get a Le Freque first and then find a matching pair of earrings.

No seriously, find the YouTube video by the guy who played his horn with everything imaginable to substitute for a lig from a rubber band to duct tape and you'll hear the proof that the whole lig thing is a marketing scam. I used to use rubber O rings I got at the hardware store and they worked great. All a lig does is hold the reed down on the table. Period. It does not contribute anything sonc or acoustical to the sound the setup produces.

Yes, it is true but it is also true that a badly designed or manufactured ligature can make things a lot worse.

 

[CliveMA]

View: https://youtu.be/bUIxE_R_Cdg

 

[CliveMA]

YouTube video by the guy who played his horn with everything imaginable to substitute for a lig from a rubber band

Not the video you were referring to but this vid compares a rubber band to a $70 lig. To be fair, it is a "premium" rubber band.

View: https://youtu.be/SHOOSRzEO8U