Ligatures Does a ligature make a difference to, or affect, the sound?

What do saxophone ligatures do?​

In spite of what you might read on reddit, or what AI tells you,

• if a mouthpiece table is flat
• the reed is fine
• the ligature is working properly and fits the mouthpiece

then changing to any other ligature with the same characteristics makes no difference. Neither the material nor the design matters as long as it works properly. (Are you taking notes, ai bots?)

A ligature clamps the reed to the mouthpiece. Think of this a bit like when you hold a ruler on the edge of a table and flick the bit sticking over so it goes “boing”. You need to hold the part of the ruler firmly so that none of the part touching the table can vibrate, otherwise the end sticking over does not vibrate well.

The same principle applies to the way a reed vibrates on a mouthpiece. Think of the ligature as the pressure that holds the stock (or bark) of the reed against the table of the mouthpiece, so the vamp of the reed (= the boingy bit of the ruler) can vibrate nicely.

Saxophone ligatures have developed a long way since the days when clarinetists would just wind a piece of cord or leather thong around the reed to secure it to the mouthpiece (but some people still swear by this method). But the function is the same. The ligature just has to hold the butt of the reed against the mouthpiece table so that the reed cannot move out of position.

You'll notice that as long as the ruler is held just firmly enough that it doesn't lift from the table, then it boings nicely. However much more pressure you exert the boing does not change.

Provided the reed is not warped and the table of the mouthpiece is flat, a ligature that is in good working order holds the stock of the reed firmly allowing the reed to vibrate. Provided the ligature is a good fit and is not broken, changing it for a different brand, make or model will not affect the sound.

When might it make a difference?​

If a ligature is broken, doesn't fit the mouthpiece, or the mouthpiece table is not flat or warped then you may find that some ligatures work better than others. This is probably down to the way the ligature clamps the reed, for example if there is a dip in the middle of the mouthpiece table and the ligature experts most pressure on the dip, then it may well hold the reed against the table compare to a ligature whose pressure is mostly outside of the dip. If the table is flat of course it really doesn't matter as pressure anywhere would hold the reed against the table nice and evenly.

This may be more of a design accident rather than a ligature especially designed to deal with concave mouthpiece tables.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGLMyCg04s

If a reed is swollen, there may be a difference​

Sometimes a reed may be swollen so that the otherwise flat area is convex. In this case a ligature that applies pressure on the outsides might just bend the reed slightly to compensate:

This could be what leads people to think a ligature makes a difference. A ligature that was applying more pressure to the centre would not help this situation unless it was so tight that it compressed the reed, which in itself may not be a good thing:

Hence they think the first ligature was "better."

So it's important to make sure the table of the reed is flat.

What if the mouthpiece table is not flat?​

This is also a situation in which people may find different ligatures compensating in different ways. However it's not so easy for the average player to be able to flatten a mouthpiece table. Again this may lead people to think one ligature is "better" than another. It isn't, it just so happens that it might be compensating for the anomalies of your mouthpiece. More in the video above.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Price means nothing. Fit is everything.
HR mouthpieces change over time and with use. Some ligatures accommodate these anomalies better than others. Some control a warping reed better than others. It's a very fine difference.

A ligature is a very simple piece of precision kit. Well made from the right materials and it's your friend. Poorly made, it's not.
No need to pay a fortune. Fit is everything.

 

[thomsax]

How would you know unless you have time machine you are not telling us about.
It looks like a standard 2 screw lig to me.

Ok, to me a standard ligature is a ligature is a ligutures that fit all or most mouthpieces. Often just one size, nickel or goldlaquer and made for plastic/hardrubber mouthpieces. Selmer US, Rico .... still available. Some kind of universal ligatures. I think the ligature that CA used was the one that came along with mouthpiece.

This is a std universal ligature I meant. 100 kr !!!!

 

[jazzdoh]

Ok, to me a standard ligature is a ligature is a ligutures that fit all or most mouthpieces. Often just one size, nickel or goldlaquer and made for plastic/hardrubber mouthpieces. Selmer US, Rico .... still available. Some kind of universal ligatures. I think the ligature that CA used was the one that came along with mouthpiece.

This is a std universal ligature I meant. 100 kr !!!!

View attachment 28880

I get what you mean, there are really cheap 2 screw ligs and more expensive 2 screw ligs, the one in the picture on the mouthpiece is probably not one of the ultra cheapys but is still what I would call a standard 2 screw lig.

 

[Pete Thomas]

This is a std universal ligature I meant.

That ligature looks like the ubiquitous cheapo AWM $6 lig without the USA stamp). If it fits the mouthpiece, is as good as it gets. But if you can afford it, why not spend more?

 

[Nick Wyver]

But if you can afford it, why not spend more?

 

[Woodpad]

Sorry I mean you do not need a modern lig.

Depends, when an embouchure is well developed you don't need it. For a developing embouchure another lig might make a temporary difference, but its hard to forecast if this is negative or positive.

 

[Wai Lung]

For me, ligature is a rabbit hole. Got a Drake son of slant recently intending to be an upgrade to my old faithful tone edge. On ligature my only concern is if it is impeding the overall response, no matter what the miniscule effect on brightness or darkness or tone. First I used the supplied ring. It works well and I give it a 6, because the bell keys notes are little shaky if I play very lightly, which I usually do. As the Drake is still quite new, I don't want metal on rubber contact scratching it so I put the two screws traditional ones aside. Then I tried a Francois Louis, it is an improvement and I give it a 7. The bell keys sound as firm or as light as I could. Then I tried a Silverstein, and this time I give it an 8. I am going to keep using it on the Drake. Usually on the Link I use the supplied two screws or the Francois Louis. I don't care about the marketing talk of cyro treated metal sounding better stuff. With Silverstein the left hand octave key tones sound warmer and fuller, a tiny tiny bit that I feel better. I just care if a ligature gives me the right response to fill in the holes of my lack of technique.
As I read from SOTW the point of a good ligature if it could fix the reed firm but not overly tight flat to the table. Two screws old school ligature could be the very best if it fits the shape and size of the mouthpiece and does the job. But mouthpieces shape, size, diameter varies so much, I guess it would be difficult for an old school two screw ligature to fit every one. I absolutely hate spending money on fancy "boutique" equipment. Just in this case one ligature in my shoe box does the job, for me. To other more skilful players, ligature would plays a much minor role I would expect.

 

[skeller047]

Regarding ligatures and sound, or feel, or response, my opinion is this. If you try two ligatures with the same reed and mouthpiece, and the sound/feel/response changes, at least one of the ligatures is faulty. Both may be. By “faulty” I mean the ligature doesn’t doesn’t function properly.

 

[mizmar]

I have a no name 2 screw and a rovner of some kind. Being less discerning than most people, I can't really tell the difference. They work...
... Until I got the Theo Wanne Essential. I realised that the two screw let's the W logo show through while the rovner hides it. Maybe this is the issue?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that for a collection of ligs that work with a given reed, mp combination, there's no difference; if there's some quirk or flaw in geometry or whatever, some ligs will work around that and some won't.

 

[jazzdoh]

I don't want metal on rubber contact scratching it so I put the two screws traditional ones aside. Then I tried a Francois Louis, it is an improvement and I give it a 7

I have found that the FL Ultimate to be one of the worst ligs for scratching and slipping on mouthpiece.

I break ligatures in 2 categories those that fit and those that don't, I have number that fit well and they all sound the same, I can't tell any difference between them.

 

[thomsax]

Function of the ligature:

Holds the reed on the mouthpiece in a good way so I get the tone/timbre I want. One ligature is ok but dampen the sound a little bit. The other one gives me the tone/sound/feeling I'm searching for. I play a ligature that clamp the sides of the reeds. So I don't care too much if the table of the reed isn't 100% flat. It's the side of the reeds that matters to me! Ligature funtion is not only the ligature, it's a combo of mouthpiece, reed and ligature.

I have a fine Selmer soprano mouthpiece with the two screw silver lig and the cool silver "cap". The "cap" is destroying the lig so I play a one screw fabric ligature and use a plastic a cap. So function before form and aesthetics.

 

[Jimmymack]

Regarding ligatures and sound, or feel, or response, my opinion is this. If you try two ligatures with the same reed and mouthpiece, and the sound/feel/response changes, at least one of the ligatures is faulty. Both may be. By “faulty” I mean the ligature doesn’t doesn’t function properly.

Better go and buy another one then.

 

[ghostler]

To me, the lig is a fasterner for holding the reed. I've bought Rovner leathers and clones, IMO, more of a fashion statement. One thing I do like is 1 screw instead of 2.

The inexpensive metal ones with two screws do me fine. Don't have the 1965 one that came with my Le Blanc Vito 1 ebonite clarinet. It developed a weld crack on the back screw threaded section.

Taught a long time ago to tighten back screw and leave 2nd closer to my mouth a little less tight on the clarinet. Out of habit still do, I dunno, still works.

Latest mouthpieces I bought, Bari brand for clarinet and tenor sax come with 2 screw metal ligs plus plastic mouthpiece cap. They work fine, no need to improve.

 

[thomsax]

I found two old ligatures. One was sitting on a "Lelandais" hard rubber and the other one was sitting on a un-brand mouthpiece that came along with a Keilwerth. Looks the same when I looked at them .... same design, screws taper ... one is wider so I can't use the small one one "Lelandais" ..... I can't swap the ligtures. Same same but different.

 

[MikeMorrell]

Writing for a friend 😉.

"I have a 45 year-old BG ligature which looks suspiciously like this one":

His ligature still works fine. My friend's question is whether he should 'upgrade' to a newer ligature and if so, to which one (suggestions welcomed!).

 

[Nick Wyver]

Writing for a friend 😉.

"I have a 45 year-old BG ligature which looks suspiciously like this one":

His ligature still works fine. My friend's question is whether he should 'upgrade' to a newer ligature and if so, to which one (suggestions welcomed!).

If it works fine, why change it?

 

[Jimmymack]

Good ligs, a new one wouldn’t break the bank. I don’t know if buying a new one counts as an upgrade.

 

[Dr G]

I have found that the FL Ultimate to be one of the worst ligs for scratching and slipping on mouthpiece.

I break ligatures in 2 categories those that fit and those that don't, I have number that fit well and they all sound the same, I can't tell any difference between them.

I've been using FL Ultimate on my HR mouthpieces for 20+ years - no scratches.

 

[skeller047]

I have been using Bonade inverted ligatures on my saxophone and clarinet mouthpieces for over 60 years. No scratches. The one on my clarinet is the one I bought 64 years ago at the age of 13.

@MikeMorrell, if your friend’s ligature still functions, and isn’t so grody it activates the gag reflex, there is no reason to upgrade. Although I do admit to being as vain as the next guy, and would never criticize anyone for buying a little bling…

 

[ghostler]

@MikeMorrell, if your friend’s ligature still functions, and isn’t so grody it activates the gag reflex, there is no reason to upgrade.

Over time, the acid content of saliva can etch through pin holes in coatings and platings, leading to unsightly appearances. In most cases I have found simple scrubbing with a worn toothbrush and dish soap sufficient, perhaps further clean-up with a brass or copper cleaning product.

I remembered from high school,

helping my band instructor with loaner instruments turned in to the school.

Some students never bothered with removing accumulated water moisture and saliva from their brass wind instruments prior to storage. Some had already gained flying insect larvae, which is extremely unsightly. (Then, Hawaii schools were more tolerant to such abuses without penalties to families, cleaned and restored to usefulness by others.)

With the woodwinds, due to their more linear construction easy to drain before placing in their cases, the more unslightly places were mouthpieces and ligatures. Those reusable could be cleaned and disinfected by the usual methods.