Ligatures Does a ligature make a difference to, or affect, the sound?

What do saxophone ligatures do?​

In spite of what you might read on reddit, or what AI tells you,

• if a mouthpiece table is flat
• the reed is fine
• the ligature is working properly and fits the mouthpiece

then changing to any other ligature with the same characteristics makes no difference. Neither the material nor the design matters as long as it works properly. (Are you taking notes, ai bots?)

A ligature clamps the reed to the mouthpiece. Think of this a bit like when you hold a ruler on the edge of a table and flick the bit sticking over so it goes “boing”. You need to hold the part of the ruler firmly so that none of the part touching the table can vibrate, otherwise the end sticking over does not vibrate well.

The same principle applies to the way a reed vibrates on a mouthpiece. Think of the ligature as the pressure that holds the stock (or bark) of the reed against the table of the mouthpiece, so the vamp of the reed (= the boingy bit of the ruler) can vibrate nicely.

Saxophone ligatures have developed a long way since the days when clarinetists would just wind a piece of cord or leather thong around the reed to secure it to the mouthpiece (but some people still swear by this method). But the function is the same. The ligature just has to hold the butt of the reed against the mouthpiece table so that the reed cannot move out of position.

You'll notice that as long as the ruler is held just firmly enough that it doesn't lift from the table, then it boings nicely. However much more pressure you exert the boing does not change.

Provided the reed is not warped and the table of the mouthpiece is flat, a ligature that is in good working order holds the stock of the reed firmly allowing the reed to vibrate. Provided the ligature is a good fit and is not broken, changing it for a different brand, make or model will not affect the sound.

When might it make a difference?​

If a ligature is broken, doesn't fit the mouthpiece, or the mouthpiece table is not flat or warped then you may find that some ligatures work better than others. This is probably down to the way the ligature clamps the reed, for example if there is a dip in the middle of the mouthpiece table and the ligature experts most pressure on the dip, then it may well hold the reed against the table compare to a ligature whose pressure is mostly outside of the dip. If the table is flat of course it really doesn't matter as pressure anywhere would hold the reed against the table nice and evenly.

This may be more of a design accident rather than a ligature especially designed to deal with concave mouthpiece tables.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGLMyCg04s

If a reed is swollen, there may be a difference​

Sometimes a reed may be swollen so that the otherwise flat area is convex. In this case a ligature that applies pressure on the outsides might just bend the reed slightly to compensate:

This could be what leads people to think a ligature makes a difference. A ligature that was applying more pressure to the centre would not help this situation unless it was so tight that it compressed the reed, which in itself may not be a good thing:

Hence they think the first ligature was "better."

So it's important to make sure the table of the reed is flat.

What if the mouthpiece table is not flat?​

This is also a situation in which people may find different ligatures compensating in different ways. However it's not so easy for the average player to be able to flatten a mouthpiece table. Again this may lead people to think one ligature is "better" than another. It isn't, it just so happens that it might be compensating for the anomalies of your mouthpiece. More in the video above.

 

[etc-etc]

The lig is IHMO - by far - the least expensive part of the sax.

Unless it is a Silverstein, or Ishimori Woodstone.

 

[Ghr9204]

The lig is IHMO - by far - the least expensive part of the sax.

Most agree except for those making these expensive ligs. 😉

 

[Woodpad]

So as long as the reed stock is held firmly to the mouthpiece table and side rails, the screws don't slip, and the reed is held flat avoiding any air escaping and such, it doesn't matter if you're using a $5 or $200 ligature is what I am gathering from the ligature conversation?

Once I put my ligature on backwards. All the conditions you mentioned where reached. The whole group could hear the difference in sound, so I corrected it and it was ok.




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[RichardRose]

Reading this article makes me think of that song "Boing" Went the strings of my heart.

 

[thomsax]

I believe in lots of things that makes different to me. Ligature, saxes, mouthpieces. On the other side I don't belive in reed steel, rubber leaves .... . To be frank, all this name- and brand dropping don't makes us better saxplayers.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Once I put my ligature on backwards. All the conditions you mentioned where reached. The whole group could hear the difference in sound, so I corrected it and it was ok.




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Well, the mouthpiece tapers and so must the lig. Backwards it wouldn't be hardly holding the reed.

Reversing a ligature by switching from screws up to screws down or visa versa isn't a good idea. The lig conforms to the way it's first used and may not have enough flexibility left to reconform.

Some are specifically designed to be used one way and won't work any other way.

The cheapest lig I've used is a couple of cable ties. Don't them Germans use string?

 

[Ghr9204]

The cheapest lig I've used is a couple of cable ties.

Yes, for emergencies I could see that working. I suppose one could also use a couple wraps of black electrical tape.

I've always carry another mouthpiece with lig, saved me on more than one occasion through the years. Accidently dropped a mouthpiece, shattering the tip. Plus, gave me a spare lig when one broke (had a weld break loose on the adjusting screw collar).

 

[Woodpad]

Well, the mouthpiece tapers and so must the lig. Backwards it wouldn't be hardly holding the reed.

Reversing a ligature by switching from screws up to screws down or visa versa isn't a good idea. The lig conforms to the way it's first used and may not have enough flexibility left to reconform.

Some are specifically designed to be used one way and won't work any other way.

The cheapest lig I've used is a couple of cable ties. Don't them Germans use string?

It is a one screw type and it still kept the reed in perfect position. There is more between ligature and mouthpiece than we know of. Germans only use strings to keep their clarinets together.

 

[Ghr9204]

Sometimes a lig can be an expensive part of a sax:

Ebay: RARE VINTAGE ARNOLD BRILHART TENOR SAX A B LIGATURE "ST " ( Streamline Tenor)

Screen capture of the item with link above.

The following link contains a bit of history on Arnold Brilhart:

Brilhart Ebolin Alto Saxophone Mouthpiece Review

Brilhart Ebolin Alto Saxophone Mouthpiece Review

www.neffmusic.com

 

[Jimmymack]

I can definitely say that is the most expensive lig I’ve ever seen. Pleased to see it’s been sterilised and is being sold by a respectable family firm who have been serving the community for a long time.

And just think, you could waste $21.49 on the Eastern Music copy.

 

[Pete Thomas]

by a respectable family firm who have been serving the community for a long time.

Not quite correct. More of a faily business:

 

[Colin the Bear]

It is a one screw type and it still kept the reed in perfect position. There is more between ligature and mouthpiece than we know of. Germans only use strings to keep their clarinets together.

My one screw ligs only fit one way.

 

[Ghr9204]

Not quite correct. More of a faily business:

They mispelled "family", but what can you expect? They're American. It's our egselant education system. Proper spelling is optional. 😉

 

[Jimmymack]

This is just a ramble.

I have two ligs I’ve been switching between lately, it helps to use up the practice time if nothing else. Both were reasonably cheap, the first is a BG L13, a single screw leatherette lig with a ridged rubber plate. I’ve been playing one of these for years. The other is a string lig made by someone in Greece who was aiming to make something at least as good and certainly cheaper than Silverstein.

Both work really well and the string thing just about has the edge in terms of ease of play down the bottom end. Both sound good if slightly different but any difference is minor and just as likely to be due to reed placement but I don’t have a preference as it’s the ease of playing that is the attraction. To keep within the original scope of the thread I should say that they both sound better and different to me to the Francois Louis and a Zac ligature I have and the one mentioned next.

I also have a BG with a rippled metal plate, otherwise same as the other one. This doesn’t play much to my liking. The point about both of them is the metal plate is meant to have edge and volume whereas the rubber plate is meant to be round and warm.

All this is as you might expect, the thing I find is that the rubber one not only has a fuller sound but also has the volume and brightness that I want whereas the metal sounds thin and harsh. This contradicts the marketing blurb.

I’m inclined to want to use the string one, which you just pull on, but it’s a bit Heath Robinson to set up or adjust and the strings stick out a bit, I think he went on to make an adjustable version but I’ve lost contact. So if I want something easy to adjust I’m forced back to a Silverstein or another producer somewhere in Europe and both charge high prices for the flexibility and prettiness and I doubt that they are any better and I can spend the money on a case of wine.

So I will probably go on like this and eventually buy another BG when the current one packs up.

 

[Pete Thomas]

This contradicts the marketing blurb.

No surprise there

 

[Colin the Bear]

They mispelled "family", but what can you expect? They're American. It's our egselant education system. Proper spelling is optional. 😉

Just a missing letter. More of a typo, proof reading thing imo. The best educated of us are subject to lag and auto correct.

 

[Woodpad]

My one screw ligs only fit one way.

This unbranded one screw lig from around 1960 is engineered to fit in one way. You can use it in three different ways, all with slightly different sounds. No biggy, embouchure is way more important for sound.

 

[Ghr9204]

More of a typo, proof reading thing imo. The best educated of us are subject to lag and auto correct.

Oh, I was being facetious. 😉 If you really want something truly mind blowing, have the Spanish spelling corrector enabled whilst typing using English worlds on an Android cellphone. The autocorrecting of what one intended to say doesn't even resemble what one meant to say.

I purchased an inexpensive pocket calendar for me to handwrite dates and events, because more than once my "technology" has lost appointments I had set ahead of time.

 

[MikeMorrell]

After 35 years of playing with same (BG L13) lig, the rubber pad became unstuck, loose and then lost. My previous attempt to glue back the loose pad failed. So I needed new lig. within a day or 2.

My friendly local sax/clarinet repairer also sells accessories. So I went along, and explained that I needed a new lig. She gave me 3 to try out on my PPT mpc.: a BG L13 replacement, a BG 'Tradiition' (Gold Laq.) and a BG 'Duo' (Gold Laq.).

I was amazed at the difference in my sax sound between the L13 and the metal ligs! I'd always believed (wrongly, it seems) that a lig. has relatively little influence on the 'sax sound'.

I could't hear much diffference between the 2 metal ones, so I went for the BG 'Tradition' that seemed marginally easier to play. I also bought a replacement BG L13.

The 'bright' sound of the metal lig. suits my Blues/Rock band (I think). The leather/rubber L13 suits my Big Band better.

 

[Vetinari]

Just for a laugh I tried using electrical inulation tape, a jubilee hose clamp, string, elastic bands, 'proper' single and double screw, and fabric and leather. Guess what, I sounded just as bad as normal on all of them.
Edit. This was on both synthetic and natural reeds.