Saxophones Cons of unlacquered sax

[Dr G]

Amen. Even among other “players” it can be silly.

There was a guy that used to follow my big band. He came up to me during a break one time to tell me how much he loved my sound that night and complimented the condition of my Selmer Super Balanced Action tenor. Funny thing was that I was playing my Borgani…. Yeah, it’s a good sounding horn too.

 

[Ivan]

I stated my opinion, but it is one shared by other

Data, please

 

[Ivan]

Ez

Bare brass is just brass without a finish

In your picky Docsplainer parlance, is 'Bare' now the recognised word for 'Unlacquered'?

“Here. If you need some cred but your playing sucks, use one of these horns with no finish. People will believe you are a seasoned player right up to the time you start playing.”

Here. You seem to argue a point when actually you make an unrelated statement

Anyone paying attention in class understands that we should be allowed to enjoy the appearance of an unlacquered horn, if that's what we like

The thing about looking better than we can play is a tiny paranoia that, in this thread, lives only in your head

 

[Taz]

I sense a little name dropping snobbery right here, so I'll stick to my well worn bare brass 66 year old cheapo that plays like an absolute beaute and leave this thread to the ... experts!

 

[Dr G]

Ez

In your picky Docsplainer parlance, is 'Bare' now the recognised word for 'Unlacquered'?

Please tell me the difference between bare and unlacquered.

Here. You seem to argue a point when actually you make an unrelated statement

Anyone paying attention in class understands that we should be allowed to enjoy the appearance of an unlacquered horn, if that's what we like

The thing about looking better than we can play is a tiny paranoia that, in this thread, lives only in your head

Enjoy whatever you care to. I listen with my ears.

 

[Dr G]

I sense a little name dropping snobbery right here, so I'll stick to my well worn bare brass 66 year old cheapo that plays like an absolute beaute and leave this thread to the ... experts!

Please tell me how much of that “well worn brass” is you putting in the time on playing that horn. You don’t get credit for someone else’s work.

Same thing with faux finishes and patina. Lookin’ like the horn is experienced is way different than you actually being able to play.

 

[Targa]

Please tell me how much of that “well worn brass” is you putting in the time on playing that horn. You don’t get credit for someone else’s work.

Tell that to any manager.

Same thing with faux finishes and patina. Lookin’ like the horn is experienced is way different than you actually being able to play.

One of my saxes has an ‘antique finish’ because I didn’t want bright and shiny and there was no matt finish option. What anyone else thinks of it is completely irrelevant to me.

 

[Stephen Howard]

One of my saxes has an ‘antique finish’ because I didn’t want bright and shiny and there was no matt finish option. What anyone else thinks of it is completely irrelevant to me.

My TJ RAW is only a RAW because they didn't do a lacquered finish at the time - else I would have had one.

I often joke about folks who choose horns with fancy finishes - be they coloured lacquer, black nickel or chemical patinas etc. - in the same way I joke about classical sax players or Selmer SA80 III horns ("Someone's gotta have 'em!"), but it's just a bit of gentle traditional joshing. Beyond that it runs the risk of getting a bit weird.

 

[Colin the Bear]

I've had some fancy finishes, which seemed like a good idea at the time.

A Rosedale copper tenor. I felt it looked like a coal scuttle. Sold it.

A black and gold Artemis alto. Nice case. Hidden away. Maybe one day.

Best finish was a G4m silver Nickel plate. Very practical and easy to live with. Played it to death and retired it.

I tried a very pretty Red and Gold Jollysun in a secondhand shop. Very cheap. Not possible to be cheap enough. Plant pot.

I do wonder who plays the pink ones.

Lacquer is great till it chips. I do like chips though.

 

[Dr G]

One of my saxes has an ‘antique finish’ because I didn’t want bright and shiny and there was no matt finish option. What anyone else thinks of it is completely irrelevant to me.

If you don’t care what others think of it, then why tell us? You don’t need to defend your choice to anyone here.

 

[turf3]

This is what I found when researching manufacturers for the proposed Cafesaxophone saxophone. Unlacquered cost more to produce due the finishing process. More hand finishing is required after the assembly process. Lacquering in a production line process is surprisingly cheap and protects the instrument from handling marks during assembly. Yes I was also surprised

The market price for a product does not depend on its manufacturing cost.

 

[Pete Thomas]

The market price for a product does not depend on its manufacturing cost.

I know but many people think it is. Manufacturing cost is part of it but can be a very small dependence compared with aspects such as the extra cost involved in taking fewer numbers of a specific model to retail marketing decisions, and of course demand.

Having said all that, in regards to the Cafesaxophone saxophone I was developing, manufacturing costs would have played quite a significant role. A bit like the old Buescher model where the bare brass was the cheapest I believe and cost was more or less based on the cost of the finish. But these days that might be considered rare in the saxophone world.

 

[turf3]

I know but many people think it is. Manufacturing cost is part of it but can be a very small dependence compared with aspects such as the extra cost involved in taking fewer numbers of a specific model to retail marketing decisions, and of course demand.

Having said all that, in regards to the Cafesaxophone saxophone I was developing, manufacturing costs would have played quite a significant role. A bit like the old Buescher model where the bare brass was the cheapest I believe and cost was more or less based on the cost of the finish. But these days that might be considered rare in the saxophone world.

My point was that if Company M charge more for their unlacquered sax than the lacquered version you CANNOT draw any conclusions about the relative manufacturing cost of the two versions. The only conclusion you can draw is that they believe customers will play more for the unl. one.

 

[Pete Thomas]

My point was that if Company M charge more for their unlacquered sax than the lacquered version you CANNOT draw any conclusions about the relative manufacturing cost of the two versions. The only conclusion you can draw is that they believe customers will play more for the unl. one.

I probably didn’t explain very well. My belief is that extra cost is either manufacturing, or belief in what customers will pay, or both. But I agree with you in general.

I’m only drawing my conclusions because I know it can cost more to produce unlacquered. But also that manufacturing cost isn’t necessarily the only reason to charge more.

 

[Colin the Bear]

A thing is worth only what you can sell it for. Retailing and marketing can cost way more than manufacturing.

 

[Taz]

Please tell me how much of that “well worn brass” is you putting in the time on playing that horn. You don’t get credit for someone else’s work.

Same thing with faux finishes and patina. Lookin’ like the horn is experienced is way different than you actually being able to play.

Wow, you really come across as a right piece of work! 15 years ago I hand stripped that horn. It's earned every one of those blemishes and stains in my hands so I guess I've put 15 years of blood sweat and tears into it. No one else has put any work into it, just me! Also, It's definatly NOT a faux finish. Again she has grown into her patina through 15 years of playing and earning me a reasonable payday thanks very much.
I have now left he conversation.

 

[Dr G]

Wow, you really come across as a right piece of work! 15 years ago I hand stripped that horn. It's earned every one of those blemishes and stains in my hands so I guess I've put 15 years of blood sweat and tears into it. No one else has put any work into it, just me! Also, It's definatly NOT a faux finish. Again she has grown into her patina through 15 years of playing and earning me a reasonable payday thanks very much.
I have now left he conversation.

So the finish of the horn was stripped. Patina is what happens to brass left bare for 15 years. If you like the look, more power to you.

Back to the street cred look tho’. If someone else plays the same horn, does it make them the seasoned player? Would you be any less a player if you bought a shiny new horn that plays equally well?

 

[Stephen Howard]

Anyone got a spade handy?

 

[PigSquealer]

Anyone got a spade handy?

No, just a club.

 

[Woodpad]

There are only electrostatic lacquered spades around here.