Beginner impro Chords from a scale

[Digger2054]

el muchacho está perdido.

I know the feeling

I've always shied away from chords as I've never understood them even as a kid, I'm probably just over thinking it.

A couple of really basic questions, to hopefully help the light come on.

The 1 chord, will always be built the root of the key signature of the piece?

Each of the other chords, will generally be constructed with notes from the scale of the key the melody is in, but starting from a different degree? (eg a 2-5-1 is using the 2nd, 5th, 1st degree of the key as the root of the chord)

 

[Colin the Bear]

Short of space, I bought one of these. Sounds terrible but plays in tune.

Pardon our interruption...

 

[hedgehog]

There's a well-organized tutorial in the Taming the Saxophone site.

 

[ellinas]

If you understand chords from scales ... it's the perfect time to start your first chord tone solos. 🙂

 

[Digger2054]

There's a well-organized tutorial in the Taming the Saxophone site.

I did have a read of this, but I've read and watched that much stuff, then with my teacher throwing more at me, my heads frazzled 😵

 

[wakyct]

For me so far there have been three main things I've taken away from learning about chords and harmony:

* Ear training, so you can hear the harmonic movement in a tune, this helps with knowing where you are in a tune, tension and release, as well as what might sound good improvising, . There's a cool app for iOS, Harmony Cloud, that's all about this.

* Facility getting around the horn, memorizing chord patterns is good fundamental practice for improving technique

* It's the foundation of voice leading when improvising. If you can arpeggiate through the chords of a tune, then you can start to connect improv lines across the bars by thinking of how one chord leads into another. I guess ultimately you're not "thinking" like this when actually improvising, but I feel the starting point is both using your ears and understanding the structure of chords.

 

[jools28]

I understand the basics of chords I just don't get what the "rules" are-especially on piano. For example I'm currently learning a piece of music from a synthesia piano tutorial on youtube and the left hand is mostly arpeggios but using only two different notes a lot of the time. It will go D-A-D or E-B-E. What would we call that if it's not a typical triad? Is this not breaking the "rules" of a song? I thought all notes of a chord had to be represented...

 

[Pete Thomas]

It will go D-A-D or E-B-E. What would we call that if it's not a typical triad?

That isn’t just “not a typical” triad. There is no triad at all as it’s only two notes, root and 5th. In rock music it is called a power chord.

However maybe the required note ( the 3rd) to make the two notes into a triad and also define the quality (major or minor) is in the right hand?

 

[mizmar]

What would we call that if it's not a typical triad?

The thing is, when using "triad" you slip from normal English to technical music talk... and the meaning changes.

 

[jools28]

@Pete Thomas yeah sorry that's what I meant that it's not even any sort of triad. Power chords interesting thanks-only know the name from playing around with guitar a bit. Yes there appears to be the other note in the RH, I didn't realise part of the melody counted for it, but I guess it doesn't matter where the chord is played? I thought it had to be more defined and obvious (if that makes any sense) and just assumed the arpeggio was supposed to be it. Hence the confusion!

 

[Pete Thomas]

but I guess it doesn't matter where the chord is played?

Correct. It doesn’t have to just be in the left hand.

 

[mizmar]

.. I didn't realise part of the melody counted for it, but I guess it doesn't matter where the chord is played

One technique / style for playing songs on a piano is to play the notes of the chord, spread out between both hands and the note(s) of the melody at the "top" / furthest right... And, very often, the melody notes will be in the chord because, harmonisation.
Whether the notes are in order or not is a question of inversions and which, if any, notes are repeated is also a choice...
In the a technique/style

 

[jools28]

@mizmar thanks! That makes sense. I'll try and remember that. Whenever I used to figure out songs I'd make sure my LH was strictly playing triads (or more notes) but it's nice to know I can have more freedom and don't have to be so rigid. I probably covered all this a few years ago and forgot! Have recently gone back to piano after a break so going over the basics again.

 

[Tenor Viol]

I understand the basics of chords I just don't get what the "rules" are-especially on piano. For example I'm currently learning a piece of music from a synthesia piano tutorial on youtube and the left hand is mostly arpeggios but using only two different notes a lot of the time. It will go D-A-D or E-B-E. What would we call that if it's not a typical triad? Is this not breaking the "rules" of a song? I thought all notes of a chord had to be represented...

They're only the root and fifth of the chord, so not a triad as the third is missing, which is probably in the melody. with only the root and fifth, you cannot tell the 'quality' of the sound as it's the thirds which tell us if it's major, minor, diminished, or augmented.

 

[lydian]

I understand the basics of chords I just don't get what the "rules" are-especially on piano. For example I'm currently learning a piece of music from a synthesia piano tutorial on youtube and the left hand is mostly arpeggios but using only two different notes a lot of the time. It will go D-A-D or E-B-E. What would we call that if it's not a typical triad? Is this not breaking the "rules" of a song? I thought all notes of a chord had to be represented...

Chord symbols are just a guide. There are no hard and fast rules so long as you respect the overall tonality. A jazz pianist will read a C7 but may play the 3rd 13th 7th and 9th in the left hand, or may play just the 3rd and 7th (shell voicing), adding/altering extensions or leaving out notes. They may even substitute an entirely different chord or sequence of chords. Gospel players especially will play incredibly complex voicings with 9ths 11ths and 13ths as well as substitutions. Rock players may only play triads or power chords, whatever fits the style and sounds good. Unless the notes are written out, you can voice it any way that fits what the rest of the band is doing, has good voice leading to the next chord and sounds good to you. To paraphrase Louis Armstrong, if it sounds good, it is good.

 

[turf3]

I understand the basics of chords I just don't get what the "rules" are-especially on piano. For example I'm currently learning a piece of music from a synthesia piano tutorial on youtube and the left hand is mostly arpeggios but using only two different notes a lot of the time. It will go D-A-D or E-B-E. What would we call that if it's not a typical triad? Is this not breaking the "rules" of a song? I thought all notes of a chord had to be represented...

Well, in this case the written part is root, fifth, root. So you're not going to get major or minor from those notes. It may well be that the melody tells you, or it could be one of those ambiguous situations.

 

[turf3]

To the OP: don't worry, you are just scratching the surface. There are only twelve notes in Western music but there is an infinity of things you can do with them. You've discovered that a major scale can generate 7 different four note chords. Now go fool around with that. For example, take a lead sheet for Fly Me To the Moon and see how many groups of chords fit with a single set of notes. Use this knowledge where it's useful to you, but don't assume that this one interesting piece of information is the key to EVERYTHING.

 

[mizmar]

take a lead sheet for Fly Me To the Moon

It's a great tune to see how sequences of chords fit together if one works out how to move from one chord to another, moving as few fingers as possible...

will play incredibly complex voicings with 9ths 11ths and 13ths as well as substitutions.

Yeah, with 10 digits on the fly, the chance of hitting a bum note is very high. The thing to do is; repeat the mistake often, call it something weird (use a random password generator) and do a YouTube on how Pythagoras and Coltrane would have approved.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Autumn Leaves is another tune that can open the door to progressions and extended harmonies.

 

[lydian]

Yeah, with 10 digits on the fly, the chance of hitting a bum note is very high. The thing to do is; repeat the mistake often, call it something weird (use a random password generator) and do a YouTube on how Pythagoras and Coltrane would have approved.

Umm... No. They know EXACTLY what they're doing, and it's pure genius and beautiful.

View: https://youtu.be/SSBlrJiPZIg


Calling something you don't understand a mistake or random nonsense just shows your ignorance. Please listen thoughtfully to some good music and try to grasp the virtuosity and beauty rather than calling it garbage. Your ignorant comment really makes me angry.

I'll go a step further. In the recently resurrected "Pretty Tunes" thread, a major element that makes them pretty is sophisticated harmony and using upper structure chord tones in the melodies, 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, not random nonsense.