Beginner theory Chords from a scale

[patrickintheforest]

I have just watched a video and learned how, starting with a Major scale, I can create all the chords of that scale.
And that they of the order Major, minor, minor, Major, Major, minor, Diminished.
And that I, IV and V are the Primary triads.
Thats all good stuff, BUT, what do I do with this newly found information.
What comes next.

 

[mizmar]

Those are the diatonic chords.
The word "diatonic" should help in search...

 

[patrickintheforest]

Do these diatonic chords guide me in creating a melody or a song. I dont know what to do with them.

 

[mizmar]

Can do. Basic harmonisation - finding chords - of a song picks diatonic chords which change as the song progress. There's piles of analysis and theory about how that's done. When people say: Oh it's a ii V I - at the root, they're describing a sequence of diatonic chords...
... Then they start messing around by changing those chords by adding extensions (V7 etc) or sharpening or flattening a tone and so on.

The diatonic chords are the "root syllables" of harmony

 

[PiccoloPirate]

OP, do you have an instrument that can play chords?
Keyboard, guitar, melodica, banjo, ukulele or software like Garage Band or keyboard.
That will help.

 

[skeller047]

What to do next? Look at the chord progressions of some tunes you like and see if you can figure out what sequences are from a single scale. For example, in the key of F, the ii-V-I would be Gm7-C7-Fmaj7. So you know for that part of the tune you are in the key of F.

There are many common sequences of chords in a particular key, that appear in countless songs. It's important to be able to recognize these by ear (and maybe by eye), it helps you understand the larger structure of a song.

So the answer to your question is - now that you know what diatonic chords are, you need to start studying how they are used and forming an idea of how they work.

 

[lydian]

For me, being able to recognize diatonic chords in an instant inform me about what framework I can use for improvisation or composition or arranging. I know if I see Dm G7 Cmaj7 that I can safely play notes from the C major scale, rather than from, say, the C# major scale. That's not to say you couldn't play any note. You absolutely can and should. But those are the safe, consonant notes available to you in that moment.

Let's say you're writing a melody in C. Knowing the diatonic chords also gives you clues about tension and resolution. On the V (G7), you may want to use a B or F in your melody to lead back to the C or E in the I chord. You'd know that the vii diminished chord leads nicely back to the I. You'd know that the ii chord should probably be minor. If you had no awareness of diatonic chords, you'd have to use intuition or trial and error. But, there are certainly many progressions that aren't diatonic and sound fantastic. So diatonic harmony is just a framework and a starting point, not a plan you must follow.

So understanding diatonic chords is very useful, but not entirely necessary to make music. Many of the greatest songs ever written were written by people who had only an intuitive understanding of music theory.

For many musicians who only ever read what they play and don't improvise or compose, no music theory is needed at all. They can happily and successfully play the dots at a high level and sound amazing.

 

[patrickintheforest]

Thanks for all that info. Yes I do have a keyboard but I play Sax not a keyboard, but I will have a go. I think, what I will do in the next few days is find a simple tune (perhaps a nursery rhyme) and see if I can work out what chords to use to go with it.
plenty of scope to experiment

 

[mizmar]

but I will have a go

It's seriously helpful. Just enough to bash out the cords in each key. You can see what's going on in general and really see how well known sequences and cadences really work.

It's a bit of a mountain - worth climbing, maybe, but a bit of work...
Hope you get further than la see time! 😉

 

[PiccoloPirate]

This might help.
If you can hum, whistle or sing, you be rockin'.
Not sure what Ionian is, but when I say that word, my Geiger Counter starts chirping.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvt694Pm6SI

 

[Digger2054]

Funny this should come up, I had a lesson tonight and was getting quizzed on Chord structure of pieces. Going to spend some time trying to figure it out.

Not sure if this is the video you watched, but I caught this one this morning and what he says makes sense in my mind.

View: https://youtu.be/sLb4oacd-0w?si=pQO4ccEE-SQac-Br

 

[PiccoloPirate]

^^^^
Interesting choice of a tune.
One of my favorites, but......

perdido · 1. (unable to find one's way). lost. a. lost · 2. (misplaced). a. lost. ¡Mira! · 3. (gone astray)

When I solo, the band often says,
el muchacho está perdido.

 

[patrickintheforest]

Thanks all for your input.
While I have been off line with the forum, I found a simple tune (happy birthday) and looked at the notes in each bar, I then found a chord that had a best fit for those notes. As it happend all the cords were primary chords of that key. I then another copy of the tune that had the chords and i am happy to say they were as I had used.
Tomorrow I will do it all again with another tune.
I now understand what is going on - thanks to guidance from you guys.

 

[GCinCT]

Thanks all for your input.
While I have been off line with the forum, I found a simple tune (happy birthday) and looked at the notes in each bar, I then found a chord that had a best fit for those notes. As it happend all the cords were primary chords of that key. I then another copy of the tune that had the chords and i am happy to say they were as I had used.
Tomorrow I will do it all again with another tune.
I now understand what is going on - thanks to guidance from you guys.

The study of harmony and music theory is a lifelong endeavor. It fascinates me and I love it. You’re off to a good start! Keep going.

 

[mizmar]

Tomorrow I will do it all again with another tune.

Fantastic.
Just to add, the channel below gives lots of discussion and examples of harmonisation from a mostly classical point of view. Fascinating.

Music Matters

Learn music theory, aural tests, music composition, sight reading, piano and more! Prepare and practice for music exams and diplomas with Music Matters. Music Matters provides a range of music learning resources, video courses and music exam support materials. Whether you are studying music at...

youtube.com

 

[Pete Thomas]

While I have been off line with the forum, I found a simple tune (happy birthday) and looked at the notes in each bar, I then found a chord that had a best fit for those notes.

That is the very basic idea, but note that chord tones are often on beats of the bar. If there is a scale run in the melody, e.g. on 8th notes, the “ands” are more likely to be non chord passing notes.

But note that is a very basic assumption. Non chord notes can be on strong beats especially if they are suspensions.

I’ve probably said too much already..

 

[Colin the Bear]

What to do with this information?
The eternal question. From maestro to novice, what to do?

Remember it. Apply it. Forget it. Doh! Relearn it. Easier 2nd time. Have revelation moments where the penny drops. Use it to analyse a piece. Gain greater respect for great composers and players. Realise you'll never know it all. The more you learn the more you find there is to learn.

Sometimes just forget it all and make a pleasing sound. Blow the thin end. 😊

 

[Pete Effamy]

Questions like this come into the forum every so often. The subject of (all or any) chords / harmony is so vast though, it can't really take anything but a really broad answer, like - chords are what are used to provide harmony.

The fact that you worked out the chords to Happy Birthday is amazing (having known nothing of music harmony / chords) - so you have a decent ear already.

I think that you have two options:

1. sit at a piano and "mess around" - with your ear you may well stumble on a sound that you recognise from a song that you know, or just a few things that sound like they work best; - with this, find the sound, then analyse / investigate what it is so that you can use it again.

2. read the first few chapters of a music theory book (for beginners).

I think that a mix of both would suit you. Then come back with some specific questions.

Asking a forum will most likely tie you in knots at some point, as the information, even if good information, will not come in an entirely ordered way (look above! - lots of music jargon / words).

If I became interested in engines, I'd either read a manual, or ideally have an engine that I could practice on along with a manual and probably Youtube videos too. I wouldn't ask a forum - maybe unless the question was about a very specific problem.

 

[Tenor Viol]

You can make understanding harmony as simple or as complex as you choose. There are plenty of books and YouTube videos on the subject - some are OK, some less so.... Probably helpful to look at one that uses a keyboard as it makes it more 'obvious'.

If you wanted to get a grip of it, you could do theory exams with one of the music exam boards

 

[turf3]

OP, do you have an instrument that can play chords?
Keyboard, guitar, melodica, banjo, ukulele or software like Garage Band or keyboard.
That will help.

Best is something that has the standard piano-style keyboard - piano/electronic keyboard, piano accordion, etc. Guitar, banjo, uke, etc. are very constrained by the tuning and the requirement to be able to actually finger chords, and it's not nearly so clear to viaualize the notes. You don't have to have any keyboard technique; as long as you know which notes are which, you can play chords and listen to their sounds.