Beginner impro Chords from a scale

[turf3]

Yeah, with 10 digits on the fly, the chance of hitting a bum note is very high. The thing to do is; repeat the mistake often, call it something weird (use a random password generator) and do a YouTube on how Pythagoras and Coltrane would have approved.

Oh yes, the old tired thing about "jazz is just a series of mistakes, called intentional". I'm really getting tired of that. Just part of the "jazz hate" in popular culture.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

After the first gazillion hours, to master the skills to play an instrument, there are more hours invested to become a competent Jazz musician, than the number of peas, made mushy, in the entire history of England. 🎶🏴‍☠️🎶

 

[JSL]

And that they of the order Major, minor, minor, Major, Major, minor, Diminished.

That's true for the triads. If you extend those to 7th chords, it will be:

Major, minor, minor, Major, Dominant (V7), minor, Half-Diminished (min7b5).

So much good info in all the posts above. In case it hasn't been mentioned, I'd suggest working with ii-V-I progression to get an idea of effective chord movement. In the key of C, that would be Dmin7-G7-Cmaj7 (minor-dominant-major). It's a very common and typical chord movement. Now that I wrote that, I see that skeller did mention it. But I'll leave it since it's worth repeating. And this is my first 'official' post on this forum, so I gotta say something!

 

[mizmar]

Just part of the "jazz hate" in popular culture.

Yeah that's really what I'm like

Lazy stereotyping.

I T W A S A J O K E
O B V I O U S L Y
(one would think).

What isn't a joke is "cleaver" folks spinning out into discussion of advanced harmonisation in reply to a beginner and then getting upset when it's ridiculed.
Just part of lazy showing off

 

[Pete Thomas]

What isn't a joke is "cleaver" folks spinning out into discussion of advanced harmonisation in reply to a beginner and then getting upset when it's ridiculed.
Just part of lazy showing off

Agreed, but it’s great how in this thread, patrickintheforest mentions taking a simple tune, analysing the melody and getting an understanding of harmony from both looking and ( presumably) listening.

Doing both is the key to the lightbulb moment when comes down to understanding theory and beyond.

 

[mizmar]

Agreed, but it’s great how in this thread, patrickintheforest mentions taking a simple tune, analysing the melody and getting an understanding of harmony from both looking and ( presumably) listening.

Doing both is the key to the lightbulb moment when comes down to understanding theory and beyond.

Absolutely.
And somewhere in the history of this site (at least my doorbell post) is my going through just the same experience and it's great to see some others doing that...
... Missfingerings (inventing exciting jazz harmonisation) and all

 

[JSL]

Agreed, but it’s great how in this thread, patrickintheforest mentions taking a simple tune, analysing the melody and getting an understanding of harmony from both looking and ( presumably) listening.

Absolutely. I remember way, way back when I was learning the blues and I would listen to a series of blues tunes and pick out the I to IV change, back to I, and then the V-IV-I change. As well as the timing of those changes. It was (and is) very easy to hear in a basic blues tune. I'd suggest the OP would do well to try this as well as learn the blues. Maybe just a wee bit off-topic since those chords are all dominant chords (usually; sometimes the I chord can be major) and so aren't strictly diatonic. But that's splitting hairs.

p.s. I'm really liking this site already. Very well laid out and a real 'banquet' of topics.

 

[lydian]

Yeah that's really what I'm like

Lazy stereotyping.

I T W A S A J O K E
O B V I O U S L Y
(one would think).

What isn't a joke is "cleaver" folks spinning out into discussion of advanced harmonisation in reply to a beginner and then getting upset when it's ridiculed.
Just part of lazy showing off

Typical. Say something terrible then follow up with, oh you can't take a joke. Yes, I get the hyperbole, but your point was complex music is just mistakes. That part wasn't really a joke. Then you double down with another "misfingerings" "joke". It wasn't funny the first time, and certainly wasn't funny the second time. It's just pure ignorance.

The OP asked if he was breaking any "rules" by not strictly following the chord symbols. My response was you can leave notes out or add more notes in and still be true to the music and sound great. That's not spiraling out of control. So I stand by the statement that, yes, you can play just 1 5, or 1 3 5 7 (9 11 13) if you want without breaking any rules.

But as always, all I get in return for trying to open minds is, nerd go home. It obvious you guys don't want a real, actually interesting discussion about music. Let's just joke around and ridicule stuff we don't understand.

In case you want to respond, save your breath. You're now on my ignore list.

 

[JSL]

The 1 chord, will always be built the root of the key signature of the piece?

Each of the other chords, will generally be constructed with notes from the scale of the key the melody is in, but starting from a different degree? (eg a 2-5-1 is using the 2nd, 5th, 1st degree of the key as the root of the chord)

Hey Digger, yes, that's basically correct. I'm a fan of the 'numerical system' related to scales, chords, & chord tones. For one thing the numbers can easily be transposed to any key. Here are a few conventions to avoid confusion:

Chords are generally referred to using Roman symbols. I, IV, V7, etc. Those indicate the chord root in relation to the key center (ex. In the key of C, the I chord is C, V chord is G, VI chord is A, etc.). And of course, each of those chords represent a collection of notes spelled out in 3rds.

Arabic numerals are assigned to individual notes, either in a scale or for the chord tones in a chord. Scale tones are related to the 'root' of the scale. C maj scale: C=1, D=2, E=3, etc..

Chord tones are related to the root of the chord; G7 chord: G=1, B=3, D=5, F=7 (extensions are 9=A, 11=C, 13=E).

Don't confuse the Arabic numbered notes in a scale with the chord tone numbers. Even though the note G is the '5' in the Cmaj scale, that same G is the '1' in the G7 chord, D is the '2' in the C scale, but '5' in the G chord. The only time the numbers will correspond with the scale tone numbers is in the I chord (C E G B = 1 3 5 7).

That may all be more confusing than clarifying, but once you get used to it, it becomes second nature and is very useful. Hope that helps.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Oh yes, the old tired thing about "jazz is just a series of mistakes, called intentional". I'm really getting tired of that. Just part of the "jazz hate" in popular culture.

I don’t think it’s jazz hate. I think it’s good to sometimes take a less serious approach.

Then you double down with another "misfingerings" "joke".

Oops, I’m also guilty of those types of “jokes.”

I see no harm in being a bit light hearted.

 

[Pete Thomas]

The only time the numbers will correspond with the scale tone numbers is in the I chord (C E G B = 1 3 5 7).

One good thing to bear in mind(as people often get this wrong) is the difference between the words root and tonic. So in the key of C or C minor there are at least seven roots but only one tonic.

 

[Digger2054]

One good thing to bear in mind(as people often get this wrong) is the difference between the words root and tonic. So in the key of C or C minor there are at least seven roots but only one tonic.

Root = 1 of the chord, Tonic = 1 of the key?

 

[Pete Effamy]

Root = 1 of the chord, Tonic = 1 of the key?

Yes, root is in the absolute here and now whereas the tonic is where you initially came from and will travel back to unless you change destination.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Gin anyone? 🍸

 

[turf3]

I don’t think it’s jazz hate. I think it’s good to sometimes take a less serious approach.

Oops, I’m also guilty of those types of “jokes.”

I see no harm in being a bit light hearted.

When "light hearted joshing" gets repeated seven times a day for decades, it's not "light hearted joshing".

 

[mizmar]

When "light hearted joshing" gets repeated seven times a day for decades, it's not "light hearted joshing".

With respect. You and lydian - even more so - lashed out at me incorrectly.
End of.

 

[Pete Thomas]

When "light hearted joshing" gets repeated seven times a day for decades, it's not "light hearted joshing".

That can often be true, but I'll stay out of this we are obviously talking about different things and I don't see any of that here, nor is a thread about music theory the place to discuss it. The best thing, if you find something offends or troubles you just report it, no need to bring it up in the thread.

 

[GCinCT]

Gin anyone? 🍸

I’d love a martini.

 

[cappers]

I’d love a martini.

Shaken or stirred?

Given the current vibe in the thread either is appropriate

 

[Targa]

I’d love a martini.

Cinzano?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk31k2BIFR0