Saxophone beginners altissimo fingerings

[Nick Wyver]

Post 22 here well remembered FJ

Jx

Thanks Jeanette. Saves me rummaging around for it.

 

[ProfJames]

Yes you sure have, best chart I've seen is the one our very own Nick Wyver wrote, much better than anything else and more importantly his fingerings work!! Pm him I'm sure he'll let you have a copy or you can do a search on here.

@Nick Wyver - I would be very pleased to see your chart.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Thanks for all your help guys
Now heres the thing.!!!!
Ive come up with some conflicting charts about altissimo fingerings .
There seems to be a few different diagrams/charts out there on the web about the fingerings .
Ive been playing around with them and it seems to me that some of the fingerings work no problem and some don't .
Now obviously a large part of this is embouchure control. So what ive don't is tried different keys to achieve the specified note and low and behold some combinations work.
Can I assume then, that because of the difference in the players embouchure, combined with a difference in the particular sax, make ,model ,setup ,etc that altissimo fingerings are different for different saxes.
And not as some charts suggest (that theyre all the same)
Regards
Allansto

Don't forget "embouchure" includes what you're doing with your tongue and throat. Tongue position is very important in altissimo.
Sigurd Rascher (in particular) suggests that one chart fits all. But I've not found that to be the case. He'd probably have said I wasn't trying hard enough and he may well have had a point. I do what I find easy.
Here's the chart again for those interested.

alto
G - alt front F oo/xoo side Bb
G# - xox/xoo side C
A - oxx/xxx
Bb - D oxx/xxx
B - D oox/ooo
C - DEb oox/ooo
C# - DEbE oox/ooo
D - DEbEF oox/ooo
D# - DEbEFF# oox/ooo

tenor
G - xoo/ooo side Bb side high F#
G# - xxx/ooo side C
A - oxx/ooo side C (or the same one as alto if I want to hit it really loud)
Bb -oox/ooo side C
B - D oox/ooo
C - DEb oox/ooo
C# - DEbE oox/ooo
D - DEbEF oox/ooo
D# - DEbEFF# oox/ooo
E - D ooo/ooo
F - DEb ooo/ooo
F# - DEbE ooo/ooo
G - DEbEF ooo/ooo

baritone

G - xoo/ooo side Bb side high F#
G# - xxx/ooo
A - oxx/ooo side C
Bb - D oxx/ooo
B - DEb oxx/ooo
C - DEbE oxx/ooo
C# - DEbEF oxx/ooo
D - DEbEFF# oxx/ooo
D# - ooo/ooo
E - D ooo/ooo
F - DEb ooo/ooo
F# - DEbE ooo/ooo
G - DEbEF ooo/ooo
G# - DEbEFF# ooo/ooo
A - D ooo/ooo
Bb - DEb ooo/ooo
B - DEbE ooo/ooo
C - DEbEF ooo/ooo

I have a top F# key on all my saxes and I use it.
The highest note in each case represents where I usually run out of steam.
I try and stick with these but I may use other fingerings depending on the circumstances.

For soprano I press some keys and hope.
I now have a sop with a top G key which makes that note a bloody sight easier (note: not "easy" though). Above that the alto fingerings sort of work but hope still plays a big part.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Actually I lied about having a top F# on all my saxes. It's just the ones I regularly gig with. The C soprano I'm not even going to think about. For the MkVI alto: alt top F + sde Bb works fine for F# and the rest is the same as above. The old Keilwerth tenor and Conn baritone I haven't really got to grips with regarding altissimo. The baritone that the above fingerings apply to is a Yanagisawa B900 from about 1990.

 

[Nick Wyver]

And more...
I've been playing around with my Keilwerth Tone King stencil from 1958. I've not had it long so I thought it was about time I got to grips with altissimo on it. No high F# of course.
First off, notes above G3 work ok with the fingerings listed above but A3, normally an easy note, seems particularly reluctant to speak. Which leaves:
G3 - A real pain in the bum. Most of the usual fingerings I've tried are flat. The best is --x/xx- . Nicely in tune but doesn't want to speak - more practice.
F#3 - The usual fingering of alt F + side Bb gives a nicely in tune F (alt F on its own being very flat). One of the usual G fingerings works quite nicely though: alt F key ---/x-- + side Bb.
F3 - As noted above the usual alt fingering is very flat and side Bb needs to be added. Palm key fingerings are all fine.

This is with a Francois Louis T285 SP mouthpiece and LaVoz med reed. Nicest sound and best tuning of the mouthpieces I tried. The more baffled ones tended to go rather sharp at the top which helped the altissimo but notes such as B3 were miles away. I could lip them down but I don't like to have to work that hard.

 

[Fraser Jarvis]

Just tried your new G3 Nick, x/xx. couldn't get a peep out of it! I use your normal fingering for G3 but with the front F rather than the B key which runs a bit flat for me (when I can get it that is).

 

[Nick Wyver]

Update after a morning's honkin'.
For G3 I've found one of the usual G# fingerings works best with only a teensy bit of lipping: x-x/x-- + side C. At least it's not flat.
G#3 : xxx/--- + side C
A3 : -xx/xx- seems to work best

The strangeness with the alt F fingering is, I guess, just peculiar to Keilwerth. On my other Keilwerth tenors (EX from '92 and Shadow from '07) the alt F fingering is flat but can be cured by adding the G# key. It's a while since I tried anything else but I seem to remember that my old Yanag tenor was fine.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Never played much altissimo before but it's raining so what the hey let's give it a go.

Am I right in assuming alt F is front F?

It does strike me as odd that if we can get F# with front F and side Bb what use is the fiddly F# key?

 

[Nick Wyver]

Am I right in assuming alt F is front F?

Yes.

It does strike me as odd that if we can get F# with front F and side Bb what use is the fiddly F# key?

Front F and side Bb and 2nd finger left hand is the most usual F# fingering I would think. On alto anyway - just doesn't work on my tenors.
The F# key is only fiddly if you don't use it much. I've been playing saxes with a top F# key for over 30 years so it's rather automatic.
What fingering you use also depends on where you're coming from and where you're going to.

 

[spike]

Just remember saxophonic Gentlemen - Every sax is, and, or can be different. Which is why the charts offer so many alternative fingering possibilities. Find the one that works best for your sax and your set-up and: Take it slowly, and incorporate it one note at a time into your daily practice routine.

 

[IanLT]

By using the palm keys on my soprano sax I can get the altissimo E, F & F# notes. However, when I try to get any of those notes using the simpler fingerings all I get is a muffled sound with an indiscernible pitch!? E.g. to get altissimo E using the alternative simpler fingerings, I press the following 4 keys: front F key, Octave key & the left-hand 2nd & 3rd finger keys.
I would be most grateful for any advice.

Atb. Ian.

 

[Halfers]

I don't play the Sop (yet) but I can tell you it's the same for me on Tenor. Palm keys now come out nice and strong, but it's taken me a while to get E F and F# from the alt fingerings. F and F# are OK now, but if I start on E, without running up or down to it, it's a pain. Lots of practice. I've not attempted to go any higher yet!

 

[Pete Thomas]

By using the palm keys on my soprano sax I can get the altissimo E, F & F# notes. However, when I try to get any of those notes using the simpler fingerings all I get is a muffled

Can you explain which exact notes and simpler fingerings you mean.

Altissimo E F and F# are very difficult, presumably you mean E4,F4 and F#4 - one octave above the palm key notes E3,F3 and F#3

So I wonder if you just mean the high notes of the regular range, ie E3, F3 and F#3.

 

[6182]

When i first started to learn to play the sax,
i started learning to play in the altissimo range 6 months later.

I bought this online course, and within a month i was hitting
altissimo G , the guy who wrote it is a top canadian rock sax player,
even played with the rolling stones.

The best thing about his course, is he teaches you altissimo fingerings
that flow together. ie when you play an altissimo scale, you dont
tie your finger up in knots as on average theres at least six different
fingers positions for each altissimo key.

But, and a big but, make sure you can play 7 to 9 overtones on the
lower sax keys, otherwise doing altissimo is a complete waste of time.

Learn The Saxophone Altissimo With This Step-By-Step Video Course

no doubt, the wind up merchants will start up with their
self opinionated views.

All i can say is, this course worked for me, i did it in my own spare
time and didn’t need to pay for sax lessons with a teacher to
master it.

About a year later, i was fully playing up to the 2nd altissimo G.

 

[JazzMatt]

When i first started to learn to play the sax,
i started learning to play in the altissimo range 6 months later.

I bought this online course, and within a month i was hitting
altissimo G , the guy who wrote it is a top canadian rock sax player,
even played with the rolling stones.

The best thing about his course, is he teaches you altissimo fingerings
that flow together. ie when you play an altissimo scale, you dont
tie your finger up in knots as on average theres at least six different
fingers positions for each altissimo key.

But, and a big but, make sure you can play 7 to 9 overtones on the
lower sax keys, otherwise doing altissimo is a complete waste of time.

Learn The Saxophone Altissimo With This Step-By-Step Video Course

no doubt, the wind up merchants will start up with their
self opinionated views.

All i can say is, this course worked for me, i did it in my own spare
time and didn’t need to pay for sax lessons with a teacher to
master it.

About a year later, i was fully playing up to the 2nd altissimo G.

What tune is that to?

 

[Pete Thomas]

no doubt, the wind up merchants will start up with their
self opinionated views.

You rang, sir? 🙂

But, and a big but, make sure you can play 7 to 9 overtones on the
lower sax keys, otherwise doing altissimo is a complete waste of time.

I'd like to point out (especially for beginners) that consistently and accurately playing 7 to 9 overtones is very very ambitious, especially on any notes higher than Bb, B and C. In fact in some cases the higher overtones (aka squeaks 🙂) can be easier than the lower ones.
For example 1st and 4th can be easier than 2nd and 3rd in some cases.

 

[Colin the Bear]

E4? On soprano? Are you sure it's not sounding? Play it next to a sleeping dog. If the dog wakes it's sounding, but is beyond the human hearing range. If the dog goes for you, check your tuning, it's obviously flat 😉

 

[rhysonsax]

By using the palm keys on my soprano sax I can get the altissimo E, F & F# notes. However, when I try to get any of those notes using the simpler fingerings all I get is a muffled sound with an indiscernible pitch!? E.g. to get altissimo E using the alternative simpler fingerings, I press the following 4 keys: front F key, Octave key & the left-hand 2nd & 3rd finger keys.
I would be most grateful for any advice.

Atb. Ian.

Hi @IanLT It sounds to me that you mean "high E, F and F#" (i.e. top of the normal range, standard fingerings) rather than altissimo (i.e. a whole ocatve above that).

That's as high as I play on soprano, except for my Selmer Serie III that has a high G key.

I find that those palm notes on soprano can be more temperamental than on alto, tenor or bari. On some of my sops they speak easily and cleanly and on others they need more coaxing to play properly. What soprano and what mouthpiece are you playing ?

Rhys

 

[Ivan]

If you ignore the potentially misleading word 'altissimo', it sounds to me that @IanLT is referring to the alternative fingerings for

As I understand it the palm keys work but the Front F fingerings don't

Is this a technical issue with the sax or a playing technique problem?

 

[Pete Thomas]

If you ignore the potentially misleading word 'altissimo', it sounds to me that @IanLT is referring to the alternative fingerings forView attachment 12376
As I understand it the palm keys work but the Front F fingerings don't

Is this a technical issue with the sax or a playing technique problem?

Could be either but I suspect it's playing technique - more breath support. Some overtone practice would help also.

I'm so glad we aren't actually talking about the altissimo E,F and F# on soprano - nobody should be allowed to play those.