Saxophones What to avoid?

[Grumpikins]

New here, first question?

I'm a tuba player, looking to find a saxophone(s) for occasional doubling. I took a saxophone class when I was in school 20+ years ago. Went very well, really enjoyed it. I play in a group that is frequently short on saxophones and abundant with tubas so I can fill in where needed.

My question isn't what horns should I look for, but what i horns i should avoid. There's always those certain ones that are no good all around.

I'm looking for dirt cheap used instruments. I really like old instruments. I'm very good at repairing things and I work in a machine shop with access to all the toys. Thank you

 

[PigSquealer]

New here, first question?

I'm a tuba player, looking to find a saxophone(s) for occasional doubling. I took a saxophone class when I was in school 20+ years ago. Went very well, really enjoyed it. I play in a group that is frequently short on saxophones and abundant with tubas so I can fill in where needed.

My question isn't what horns should I look for, but what i horns i should avoid. There's always those certain ones that are no good all around.

I'm looking for dirt cheap used instruments. I really like old instruments. I'm very good at repairing things and I work in a machine shop with access to all the toys. Thank you

Hello @Grumpikins and welcome to Café Saxophone.
My first question is what is your budget ? Second question is alto or tenor ?
Lots of quality vintage horns to choose from.
Decent condition project horns can be had for sub $300. Add another $125 in parts / supplies. Maybe another $100-$200 in specialty tools.
Having access to a machine shop is very helpful. Being handy in diverse repair too. Be aware repairing / refurbishing a sax is unlike anything you can imagine. These things are deceiving in needs. All small stuff. My best suggestion is to study repairing from multiple sources. Ten techs, ten different techniques, one task. Each successful.
There’s repair threads here on the Café to study from too.

Saxophones: gear, playing, repair, impro

General saxophone and sax playing related discussion

cafesaxophone.com

 

[hedgehog]

Welcome, @Grumpikins

In case you haven't found it yet, @PigSquealer shares his mad skills thru this thread

Also, there's the Haynes Saxophone Manual written by @Stephen Howard It's no longer in print but if you can find a used copy, you would find it useful (as I say, my saxophone skills are minimal but from bicycle and automotive experience I know a good manual when I see it and this one is really good.) Wow...I just checked Amazon...there are three copies starting at US $289.

Repairer Matt Stohrer has a lot of videos here. One cool thing about Storher is his shop is in an Airstream trailer.

 

[PigSquealer]

case you haven't found it yet, @PigSquealer shares his mad skills thru this thread

Yes the blog thing, daily life. Thanks for posting link.
I also have a library. I need to add a bunch more, but you’ll find repair education around post 11.

Tech/maintenance - Repair threads and links by PigSquealer

Links to repair threads I’ve done. Repair information links to study and learn from. Every project you attempt will take different skills. Study everything you can get your hands on before you attempt a repair. It’s a craft. 10 techs, 10 different techniques. Use what works successfully for...

cafesaxophone.com

 

[Stocker]

Avoid any modern off-brand instruments - no telling what the quality may be. Not like decades ago when a "stencil" instrument was usually made by a reputable manufacturer and often identical to that maker's own second- or third-line offering. I don't want to say "avoid anything with the bell keys on the right side" given that it sounds preposterous to most, but given what you seem to be looking for, that might be the short of it (unless you're looking for a baritone).

If you prefer older instruments, there's plenty of options out there.

 

[Woodpad]

Avoid all instruments not named Vito.

 

[mizmar]

Quite a few folks have been helped by posting an thread, here, of a short list of candidate instruments they fancy. Maybe with photos if possible. Cafe members, as a collective, will have useful feedback, possibly contradictory, but useful none they less.

 

[teen37]

New here, first question?

I'm a tuba player, looking to find a saxophone(s) for occasional doubling. I took a saxophone class when I was in school 20+ years ago. Went very well, really enjoyed it. I play in a group that is frequently short on saxophones and abundant with tubas so I can fill in where needed.

My question isn't what horns should I look for, but what i horns i should avoid. There's always those certain ones that are no good all around.

I'm looking for dirt cheap used instruments. I really like old instruments. I'm very good at repairing things and I work in a machine shop with access to all the toys. Thank you

Hey 👋👋 welcome! 😉☺️ I'm sorry, I have no useful advice on what to avoid except maybe the really cheap horns on amazon?.... Possibly? 🤷 But the guys on here really know their stuff so their advice is invaluable 😉👍 and I have the Haynes manual from @Stephen Howard and it's a gold mine for sure so if you can get a copy, then go for it!
All the best mate 😉

 

[PiccoloPirate]

"I'm looking for dirt cheap used instruments. I really like old instruments. I'm very good at repairing things and I work in a machine shop with access to all the toys."

You will avoid learning to play the saxophone now, with any horn that is not ready to play or just needs some service, and not avoid getting started with learning to repair horns.
Decisions decisions. 😜

 

[turf3]

Do you want to learn how to play saxophone, or how to repair saxophones? If the former, don't sign up for something knackered that you'll have to develop all your repair skills before you can play it.

 

[teen37]

Do you want to learn how to play saxophone, or how to repair saxophones? If the former, don't sign up for something knackered that you'll have to develop all your repair skills before you can play it.

Errrmmm...... I can play saxophone..... Can't I..... 🤔
OR is it a rhetorical question you're asking? 😳🙄😂😳

 

[turf3]

Errrmmm...... I can play saxophone..... Can't I..... 🤔
OR is it a rhetorical question you're asking? 😳🙄😂😳

Not you, the OP.

 

[LostCircuits]

Mendini, Cellini, "Professioanl" are no-no's. It is not just that they are inherently bad but even more that you never know what you'll get and what they will morph into when the burrs left behind from manufacturing start wearing off.

If you are looking for dirt-cheap, start at the local pawnshops and ignore the bling horns but look for something scratched but not too dented.

Craigslist is another option, especially if there is a high school horn that was left behind by the kid who just went to college and had been sitting in the basement/garage for the last 5 years.

Check for golf balls and mouthpiece caps stuck in the body tube, they will render any horn unplayable but it is a 5 second fix - after you buy the horn.

I got a Conn that had to go because the wife did not like the name Conn, it reminded her of con-artist...

Look at the bow keys, they are often the first ones to "go" because of negligence after playing, and rusted resos, torn leather and eaten away tone hole chimneys are bad signs and indicators for more severe damage elsewhere.

 

[JayeNM]

New here, first question?

I'm a tuba player, looking to find a saxophone(s) for occasional doubling. I took a saxophone class when I was in school 20+ years ago. Went very well, really enjoyed it. I play in a group that is frequently short on saxophones and abundant with tubas so I can fill in where needed.

My question isn't what horns should I look for, but what i horns i should avoid. There's always those certain ones that are no good all around.

I'm looking for dirt cheap used instruments. I really like old instruments. I'm very good at repairing things and I work in a machine shop with access to all the toys. Thank you

You are a Tuba player, you gotta go for Baritone Sax, my friend. They fit low brass players like a glove😎

 

[JayeNM]

So....even if you're a machinist, be aware of the Learning Curve on sax repair.

You can acquire the proper learning resources easily, but like other repair there is still a learning curve. For me, my first four or five I got to play, then within a month or three they went out of regulation and wouldn't. Leaks that I removed reappeared, and other leaks I had missed, persisted.

By #6 or 7, I got things more dialed in....but it wasn't until around #12 that I had developed a decent enough eye for what to look for, and a decent enough methodology to produce tge desired resuly consistently.

So, with those caveats...do NOT START with a complete junker. Start with one which is highly available but not particularly sought after that doesn't look like it spent a year in a flooded basement (iow all keys free and moving, finish reasonably intact (not orange rotted or green everywhere, no atrocious body damage. Bundy 1, Conn Shooting Star, King Cleveland are some which fit that bill. Readily available, they never bid or sell high. Good quality horns.

As noted by another member above, stay away from used cheapo Chinese brands and models, or no name engraved on 'em. As a rule. I mean if you get one for $70, then sure take it because it will give you an idea of modern style keywork. But it may not (probably not) be a horn you would want to pass on to anybody who needs something reliable.

The old American and Euro brands, would be.

Welcome !

 

[JayeNM]

also... @Grumpikins kins, just so you know...

'project altos' = $100-250

'project tenors' = $150-350

'project baritones' = $500-1000

If you had an idea you could pick up project saxes for $50-100, commonly.....readjust those numbers to something more in line with actual used prices.

And DON'T BUY A NECK-LESS SAX

 

[Grumpikins]

also... @Grumpikins kins, just so you know...

'project altos' = $100-250

'project tenors' = $150-350

'project baritones' = $500-1000

If you had an idea you could pick up project saxes for $50-100, commonly.....readjust those numbers to something more in line with actual used prices.

And DON'T BUY A NECK-LESS SAX

Those price ranges seem reasonable. However, I have looked at bari's that were busted and/or missing parts that are still listed for $3-4k. I would love a bari, but an alto seems to be what we're short this time around.

 

[Grumpikins]

So it would be a safe bet to pick up anything king, conn from the 20s to 80s? I have had my eye on a 20s york alto around $300?

 

[LostCircuits]

So it would be a safe bet to pick up anything king, conn from the 20s to 80s? I have had my eye on a 20s york alto around $300?

In working condition, yes, as a project horn, $100-150 is more realistic. If you are really going vintage, look for a BuescherTT, they are among the best and impossible to destroy, that's why there is a glutton of them, which kills their resale value. But unless somebody drove over it, you'd be in for an excellent instrument and, if there are parts that are missing or you mess up something, the bone piles of those horns are even larger and you can buy a second one for parts or even spare parts that somebody has lying around.

 

[PigSquealer]

I have looked at bari's that were busted and/or missing parts that are still listed for $3-4k. I would love a bari, but an alto seems to be what we're short this time around.

Look locally on OfferUp. Set a search. I’ve seen project Bundy II baritones list at sub $500.
Alto as first project and great player that’s dirt cheap and abundant. A late ‘50s early’60s Martin Indiana. Often sub $100 with case included.
The metal quality and craftsmanship is very good. Tone / sound is consistent with its origin. The Martin Handcraft.