Sheet Music What Does This Musical Notation Mark Represent ?

[rhysonsax]

Here is a nice recording by Canadian Brass (quintet) of an arrangement of St Louis Blues, done for them by Luther Henderson. It has the score on screen and it seems to be aimed at "classical" musicians, in that the swing is written out (dotted eighth note and sixteenth note) and there are way more articulation markings than jazz musicians would usually see.

One mark in particular appears a few times and I am not sure what it is called or what it means. It is a sort of up and down zig zag between two notes of the same pitch, for instance in the first full bar of the trumpet 2 part.

View: https://youtu.be/UyFuzD_SO-w?si=8Cytft0e2Pcvt0h8


It looks a bit like a "turn" but isn't played that way. It seems to be played as a slight scoop up to the second note. I have seen that type of thing in jazz scores marked with a "U" mark between the two notes or a "scoop" line up to the second note.

Rhys

 

[Pete Effamy]

It’s as you describe - 2nd note being scooped. Never seen the symbol before: I think it has been used because the arranger thinks it looks descriptive.

 

[Taragot]

...never seen that symbol either. Seems to indicate something like " add crazy bendings, scoops, flattertounge, whatever, make it sound like this jazzy jungle sound you've propably read before"

 

[Pete Thomas]

I have seen that type of thing in jazz scores marked with a "U" mark between the two notes

I would notate something like that, a U shape but shallower. Often you'd also have mute wah wah.

It's not a great score in that the accents with tenuto marks are unnecessary clutter. They are in fact long accents, ie a V on its side > . This implies tenuto so the tenuto mark _ is not needed. But the notes aren't accented anyway so what the ...?

Also the actual mute needed for the trumpet should be specified. OTOH if you are trumpet player familiar with the genre you'd know the tune and wouldn't need to read it so even if the mute was specified, the mute is in fact moot.

 

[rhysonsax]

And then there is the double articulation marking on two instruments at letter A where players are instructed to play both short (dot) and long (horizontal line). This one is seen quite often in some scores but always confuses me. I call it "shlong" which at least amuses me.

Rhys

 

[Tenor Viol]

And then there is the double articulation marking on two instruments at letter A where players are instructed to play both short (dot) and long (horizontal line). This one is seen quite often in some scores but always confuses me. I call it "shlong" which at least amuses me.

Rhys

It's a very "C20th" mark which Elgar was fond of aka tenuto-staccato. What it's saying is "I want some daylight between the notes but don't shorten too much", i.e. not by the amount you would for a standard staccato.

 

[hedgehog]

the mute is in fact moot.

 

[rhysonsax]

It's a very "C20th" mark which Elgar was fond of aka tenuto-staccato. What it's saying is "I want some daylight between the notes but don't shorten too much", i.e. not by the amount you would for a standard staccato.

Interesting - how would that differ from a note with no marking at all ?

Rhys

 

[Taragot]

It is somehow more special than a note without any markings.
But I am guilty of using this combination of tenuto and staccato before, too.
As a kind of a soft accent or so.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Interesting - how would that differ from a note with no marking at all ?

Rhys

With no markings notes should sound articulated but have no discernible gap. Legato tongued.
I take the dot under a tenuto merely to mean that notes are given a little space between them, unlike staccato which would usually mean 50% sound and 50% silence of the written note values.

 

[rhysonsax]

With no markings notes should sound articulated but have no discernible gap. Legato tongued.
I take the dot under a tenuto merely to mean that notes are given a little space between them, unlike staccato which would usually mean 50% sound and 50% silence of the written note values.

This is probably a silly question, but in terms of sound duration what %age of the time value would one interpret ?

• Dot (staccato) alone
• Dot and tenuto line
• No marking
• Tenuto line alone

And do the dot and/or tenuto line mean anything in terms of attack / emphasis ?

Presumably these questions should have an agreed answer, as there must be rules (or at least conventions) for computers to interpret notation (e.g. Midi or sample playback of scores).

Rhys

 

[Pete Thomas]

This is probably a silly question, but in terms of sound duration what %age of the time value would one interpret ?

Not as silly as the way some of these markings get used. This is my take:

• Dot (staccato) alone - approx half the length of the written note.
• Dot and tenuto line - a but longer than staccato but shorter than full length. Pointless in some cases e.g. on a 1/16 note.
• No marking - full length.
• Tenuto line alone - full length (a bit pointless if you ask me)

 

[Tenor Viol]

I think some of these markings are really just making a point: you should give a note full value but a tenuto is to make sure you do... The tenuto-staccato is saying'a bit of separation but not too much'.

 

[skeller047]

This is probably a silly question, but in terms of sound duration what %age of the time value would one interpret ?

• Dot (staccato) alone
• Dot and tenuto line
• No marking

Tenuto line alone
And do the dot and/or tenuto line mean anything in terms of attack / emphasis ?

Presumably these questions should have an agreed answer, as there must be rules (or at least conventions) for computers to interpret notation (e.g. Midi or sample playback of scores).

Rhys

Not as silly as the way some of these markings get used. This is my take:

• Dot (staccato) alone - approx half the length of the written note.
• Dot and tenuto line - a but longer than staccato but shorter than full length. Pointless in some cases e.g. on a 1/16 note.
• No marking - full length.
• Tenuto line alone - full length (a bit pointless if you ask me)

I agree with Pete, mostly, but in a jazz context (like a big band chart) I would use a different set of interpretations. In particular:

• Dot (staccato) - play a short note. For a quarter, eighth or sixteenth note, the durations would all be about the same.
• Dot plus tenuto - never see this, but Pete’s comment is about right.
• No marking - full length, but tongued, so quarter notes and eighths might get a little space around them.
• Tenuto alone - tongued, but legato style so the notes remain connected. As if slurred, but still separated by a very light tongue.

 

[rhysonsax]

I have looked in the Playback Dictionary of my Sibelius 7 notation software and these are the (presumably default) interpretations of some articulation markings:

• Staccatissimo: 30% of written duration
• Staccato: 50% of written duration
• Tenuto: 110% of written duration (how would that work ?)
• Marcato: 135% of current attack and 135% of current dynamic
• Accent: 100% of current attack and 120% of current dynamic

It doesn't seem to have a defined interpretation for Staccato + Tenuto.

Users can change the playback definitions of these articulation markings and can also define up to three custom articulations.

Rhys

 

[Taragot]

I think, this can't be answered without knowing the context or the Intention of the composer.
I recall a sentence in a baroque theorie book (Quantz?), that every quarter note should be shortened, so that there is a gap between them. A tenuto would lenghten it to full value.
But this would be again seen in the context, an Adagio would be different from an Allegro.
In jazz, a latin piece it would be different from a swing style composition.
When I wrote the combination of tenuto and staccato, I meant: Play every note meaningful and well articulated, but without gap between the notes.

 

[Taragot]

I have looked in the Playback Dictionary of my Sibelius 7 notation software and these are the (presumably default) interpretations of some articulation markings:

• Staccatissimo: 30% of written duration
• Staccato: 50% of written duration
• Tenuto: 110% of written duration (how would that work ?)
• Marcato: 135% of current attack and 135% of current dynamic
• Accent: 100% of current attack and 120% of current dynamic

It doesn't seem to have a defined interpretation for Staccato + Tenuto.

Users can change the playback definitions of these articulation markings and can also define up to three custom articulations.

Rhys

But perhaps these percentage numbers change when you alter the interpretation style/ the timing? Don't know, but this attention to details would make the music sound better imo.

 

[rhysonsax]

But perhaps these percentage numbers change when you alter the interpretation style/ the timing? Don't know, but this attention to details would make the music sound better imo.

I don't think that Sibelius 7 (my version which must be at least 10 years old) is that sophisticated in terms of note durations but it would allow the user to make the necessary changes. It does recognise and make playback alterations in response to Text such as "Swing" and "Latin".

But computerised music playback can be made to follow any musical conventions that can be expressed as "rules". In general, I think Sibelius strikes a pretty good balance between what it does automatically and what ability it gives users to tailor its behaviour.

Of course Sibelius has the primary purpose of musical notation rather than exceptionally convincing audio playback. But it does integrate with a playback package called Noteperformer which uses good audio samples and then does clever things to give playback a reasonably convincing human feel. As far as I remember it is aimed at Classical music and so doesn't do a very good job for Jazz, Soul, Rock etc.

View: https://youtu.be/lgt-2CeY19o?si=EjYB9pp2Sen5Y5AV


Rhys

 

[Tenor Viol]

Notation and its use/meaning evolves over time. French baroque music has the concept of "quavers inégale" or 'unequal quavers', which essentially means what we mean when we say 'swung'. Straight quavers are 'égale'.

The convention of C20th choral composers, including Vaughan Williams, Herbert Howellls etc., is where you have a note tied to a quaver on the first beat of the bar, it means come off 'on the beat'. The purpose of the tied quaver is to indicate the intention of clearing the note on the beat. So, if you had a 4/4 bar with a minim on 3 and 4 tied to quaver on beat 1 of following bar, you sing right through and come off on 'one'.

It means needing a stylistic awareness of the period's music and how the notation is used since it's not static. The challenge is that especially with older music, none of this is written down. If it is written down (Quantz has been mentioned but we have earlier cases such as Christopher Simpson in the C17th) we have no idea if what they are writing is correct or just their whimsy. Similar to reading first night reviews to form opinions of pieces of music. On that basis we'd never listen to some Brahms or Tchaikovsky symphonies

 

[Pete Thomas]

Tenuto: 110% of written duration (how would that work ?)

This is presumably for MIDI, not instructions for people. Hence this is how the MIDI playback is affected so the tenuto notes would play slightly overlapping. It could be that some instruments require this for legato interpretation, ie the attack part of the sample or envelope is not sounded.