Playing the saxophone What does professional musician mean?

[Pete Effamy]

Yes it has been said on a few occasions, mostly when young(er) and almost always when the client has no money to pay and wants something for nothing. On the few occasions that a gig like this was done, it never led to anything.

... it can be quite amusing actually. Because of the nature of the profession and not much money circulating, pretty big name musicians can be on wedding gigs, for example. Because sidemen are almost always anonymous to the general public, you often get someone telling them that they aren't bad and should have thought about taking it up properly...

(actually, it's tedious..)

 

[turf3]

Yes it has been said on a few occasions, mostly when young(er) and almost always when the client has no money to pay and wants something for nothing. On the few occasions that a gig like this was done, it never led to anything.

Exactly!

You can die of exposure.

I have had these requests many times when the client DID have money to pay. Too many people figure that musicians enjoy performing, so it's not work for them, it's play, and so they'll do it for free. NOPE.

now, there are exceptions, such as performing in my very small church. A valid exception for a commercial band, and I've done this a couple times, is with a brand new band, where you want to do a "shakedown cruise" to find and fix trouble spots; that can be worthwhile if you consider it a "dress rehearsal with audience". By "trouble spots" I don't really mean things like "the bass player wasn't clear on where we go to Eb" - that's for "rehearsal without audience". I'm thinking more about things like "there's no way that bass amp's going to cut it for performance" or "lead singer freezes and stares at shoes for every tune" or "it sounded OK in the practice room, but there's just no energy being projected when we get out there for real" or "Sheesh, every single ending was a cluster."

 

[JayeNM]

I personally think the 'exposure' thing is a pretty solidified scam in the venue booker world. IOW, they know EXACTLY what they're doing. They know the local pay scale, they know they are undercutting it.

What riles me more is, young players will actually accept it. They literally buy the 'exposure' narrative.
Ad infinitum I tell these players, STOP doing that, because you are literally undermining the pay for all local musicians. You hurt your own generation of musicians, and you hurt the older generations of giggers as well.

Deaf ears, most of time, though...

 

[progger]

... it can be quite amusing actually. Because of the nature of the profession and not much money circulating, pretty big name musicians can be on wedding gigs, for example. Because sidemen are almost always anonymous to the general public, you often get someone telling them that they aren't bad and should have thought about taking it up properly...

(actually, it's tedious..)

Absolutely correct. As fortunate as I've been in my music career on the whole, things like wedding gigs have paid for a ton of my adult life, and particularly when I was living in New York, I played gigs like that with a huge number of great people on (for example) the Down Beat readers' and critics' polls. Unglamorous gigs keep skills sharp while paying the bills for musicians who are, say, in between big tours or big projects. When the band is good and the clients/managers aren't horrible, those gigs can even sometimes be fun...

 

[MikeMorrell]

I think this is the basis for an interesting discussion/debate.

My take is that a professional is someone who makes a living from playing. No other work. So in that case a couple of bucks or free meal is not it.

And of course there is semi-pro

I might have responded to this thread before but it doesn't show up. I haven't read through the whole (long) thread.

But my take (other than @Pete Thomas's) is that a professional musician is someone who makes their living (primarily) by being a musician. The few 'professional musicians' that I've known have employed various activities (teaching, workshops, playing, composing, arranging, conductorships) to generate enough income to support themselves and their families through their 'professional music skills'. As in all arts/music university degree programs, the percentage of graduates who 'make it' to a sustainable professional (living wage) income is very small.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I might have responded to this thread before but it doesn't show up.

I’m not sure what you mean by doesn’t show up?

But my take (other than @Pete Thomas's) is that a professional musician is someone who makes their living (primarily) by being a musician.

I’m beginning to come round to this view also

 

[thomsax]

What does professional muscian mean?

Formally: Zero.

Informally: What do you want it to mean?

To be a professional mussician is not a protected (proffessional) title. A "proffessional muscian" who is teaching (in Sweden) as well must have a license to teach at schools with national steering documents and national grading criteria.