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Vapers

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,113
#61
...welcome to vape somewhere else

Vapers and publicans alike should not expect non-vapers to passively inhale vape chemicals
Funny thing is, we've all been breathing this stuff in for years.
PG is widely used to carry diffused scent and medicines...and you'll often find it in air fresheners. That smell of freshly-baked bread in your supermarket? Probably a PG-based diffuser.

Fancy taking in or playing at a gig? Maybe a West-End show? Or what about the local nightclub? Anywhere you see a smoke machine, that's PG/VG again.

If you've used asthma inhalers in the past, that used to be PG.

Fancy freshening up with a quick puff from a bodymister. PG again.

Blocked nose? How about a nasal spray to clear that congestion. PG again.

Damn that pesky fly? Have at it with the fly spray. PG again.

I remember having a rather pointed conversation with a jobsworth at a London gig who objected to my chugging away on my vape during the soundcheck. I was standing right next to the stage smoke machine, which was merrily billowing out clouds of PG - of, I might add, industrial grade rather than pharma grade.

Not to put too fine a point on it, we've all been breathing it in since the 1940s...and no-one seems have have suffered any ill effects as yet. In fact it has slightly antibacterial properties.
 

Ivan

Undecided
Subscriber
Messages
4,767
Location
Peeblesshire
#62
Funny thing is, we've all been breathing this stuff in for years.
PG is widely used to carry diffused scent and medicines...and you'll often find it in air fresheners. That smell of freshly-baked bread in your supermarket? Probably a PG-based diffuser.

Fancy taking in or playing at a gig? Maybe a West-End show? Or what about the local nightclub? Anywhere you see a smoke machine, that's PG/VG again.

If you've used asthma inhalers in the past, that used to be PG.

Fancy freshening up with a quick puff from a bodymister. PG again.

Blocked nose? How about a nasal spray to clear that congestion. PG again.

Damn that pesky fly? Have at it with the fly spray. PG again.

I remember having a rather pointed conversation with a jobsworth at a London gig who objected to my chugging away on my vape during the soundcheck. I was standing right next to the stage smoke machine, which was merrily billowing out clouds of PG - of, I might add, industrial grade rather than pharma grade.

Not to put too fine a point on it, we've all been breathing it in since the 1940s...and no-one seems have have suffered any ill effects as yet. In fact it has slightly antibacterial properties.
You argue that because the environment is already contaminated with PG it's OK to add to it, whether the person next to you wants it or not. It's the sort of self-serving reasoning a fly tipper might use: 'I'll top up that chip wrapper littering the verge over there with three mattresses and a dozen used car tyres. No harm done".

I'd have thought we should try to keep the air we breath as clean as is practicable. A simple step you can take is to join the smokers and vape outside. Then the rest of us, who aren't particularly into breathing in second hand aromatics and nicotine can see where you are and we know when to hold our breath
 

Targa

Among the pigeons
Subscriber
Messages
7,429
Location
KIC 8462852
#63
Not to put too fine a point on it, we've all been breathing it in since the 1940s...and no-one seems have have suffered any ill effects as yet. In fact it has slightly antibacterial properties.
A simple point when I was young despite coal being used for everything including at home, most people smoking, leaded fuel, smog, asthma was very rare I never heard of anyone with it. Now it would seem every other person has it.
So it must be caused by some modern developments and chemicals being pushed out and that could be one of them.
 

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,113
#64
You argue that because the environment is already contaminated with PG it's OK to add to it, whether the person next to you wants it or not. It's the sort of self-serving reasoning a fly tipper might use: 'I'll top up that chip wrapper littering the verge over there with three mattresses and a dozen used car tyres. No harm done".

I'd have thought we should try to keep the air we breath as clean as is practicable. A simple step you can take is to join the smokers and vape outside. Then the rest of us, who aren't particularly into breathing in second hand aromatics and nicotine can see where you are and we know when to hold our breath
I understand the point completely, but one of the knotty problems with vapour is that it's beginning to look like it's as or more benign than many things with breathe in without a moment's thought. That steak and chips sitting on your table in the pub - that's giving off contaminents, That coffee too. Your aftershave. That sneaky bottom burp you squeezed out while everyone was laughing. All second-hand aromatics...with heaven knows what else in them.
Can you tell me if any of these things are better or worse than vapour? Probably not - and neither can I, but would I suggest it's reason enough to make you sit outside? And what of telling vapers to stand with the smokers? Would you tell a child to go stand with the smokers? Your best mate? Would you object if someone told you to go stand with them? Where d'you draw the line, and why?

I'm admittedly playing devil's advocate here - but the whole phenomenon is opening up some interesting cracks in the way we each have an effect on the lives of people around us, and if you're unable to cry "It's bad for me", what does your complaint boil down to? That 'you' don't like it? That it's inconvenient? That it makes you feel uneasy?
 

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,113
#65
A simple point when I was young despite coal being used for everything including at home, most people smoking, leaded fuel, smog, asthma was very rare I never heard of anyone with it. Now it would seem every other person has it.
So it must be caused by some modern developments and chemicals being pushed out and that could be one of them.
It's a neat theory, I'll give you that, but it's rather scuppered by the fact that PG was used as a carrier in asthma inhalers.

There's some suggestion that a great deal of it could be down to the fact that our lives, in general, are cleaner...and perhaps a little too sanitised.
 

llamedos

Senior Member
Messages
414
Location
Lincolnshire
#67
Following on from Colin's point above, it would be interesting to know for certain just how many conditions are becoming more prevalent as a direct result of advances in diagnostic techniques. I seem to remember reading somewhere that this was quoted as one of the prime reasons for the increased prevalence of asthma rather than a deterioration in air quality.

As an ex-smoker (I quit the habit during a sojourn in the coronary care unit) I find this thread to be of some academic interest and I now have a better understanding of the vaping movement as a result of the various well-informed posts herein. Many thanks for the illumination!
Dave.
 

Targa

Among the pigeons
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7,429
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KIC 8462852
#68
It's a neat theory, I'll give you that, but it's rather scuppered by the fact that PG was used as a carrier in asthma inhalers.

There's some suggestion that a great deal of it could be down to the fact that our lives, in general, are cleaner...and perhaps a little too sanitised.
I was trying to say briefly that 'modern life' with all the chemicals, that being only one of them, is what is causing such things as asthma and as you say being too clean not developing resistance to harmful bacteria etc.
However to continue with PG you said it WAS used so knowing nothing about it I went for the usual wander round the internet and found ATSDR - Public Health Statement: Propylene Glycol.
One interesting bit to save you reading it all:
'Propylene glycol breaks down in the body in about 48 hours. However, studies of people and animals show that if you have repeated eye, skin, nasal, or oral exposures to propylene glycol for a short time, you may develop some irritation.
Maybe that's why it is no longer used.
 
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Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,113
#69
Following on from Colin's point above, it would be interesting to know for certain just how many conditions are becoming more prevalent as a direct result of advances in diagnostic techniques. I seem to remember reading somewhere that this was quoted as one of the prime reasons for the increased prevalence of asthma rather than a deterioration in air quality.
That's a very cogent point, and it's in this area where a lot of studies (in all fields) were making mileage out of seemingly 'shocking' findings.
The current debates on sugar, obesity and alcohol appear to be driven by this technique. And yes, the headlines make for worrying reading...but it's only when you dig out the bare studies (which aren't always accessible to the public) that you find things aren't as bad as they're made out to be.
And in some extreme cases the 'findings' are almost complete opposite to what the data says.

I'm told by someone in the know about such things that there's a fear of publishing a study that that says "Everything's the same as it used to be" or "We didn't find this or that". The folks who dish out the grants want results, and have perhaps forgotten that in science a 'null result' is as valuable as a positive one.
 

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,113
#70
'Propylene glycol breaks down in the body in about 48 hours. However, studies of people and animals show that if you have repeated eye, skin, nasal, or oral exposures to propylene glycol for a short time, you may develop some irritation.
Maybe that's why it is no longer used.
I think you'll find that if you read any MSDS sheet that comes with a medicine, you'll find loads of such statements. The manufacturers are pretty much obliged to report on any and all issues in case they get sued. If you fancy a chuckle, look up the MSDS for chilli powder.

PG allergy is rare but widely known about among vapers and seems to result in some drying of the skin (usually the upper arms) and a little itchiness there. For some vapers it's more orally drying than for others (it's hygroscopic) - to which the solution is to drink more water.
 

Alice

Psychedelic
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4,275
Location
Kent, the Garden of England
#73
Yes, I agree with Colin on that point. Back in the “olden days” children, men and women who worked in mills, down coal mines, up chimneys all had terrible health problems which were only cured by death. Even the rich chose to live by the seaside for months on end because living in the cities was bad for their health.
I’m not sure about the comparison of vaping and fly tipping, because. if anything the reality would be the opposite of what was suggested and vaping more like the equivalent of throwing a chip wrapper on top of a mattress and an old fridge. In theory anyway, I think. I am not bothered by vapers because I consider the smokers to be worse and as they’ve all been shunted outside now, they clutter up the streets and pollute those, instead of sticking to one room and only doing it to themselves.
I should hope not, it's rather nasty stuff apparently.
That said, PEG (polyethylene glycol) can be used - but no-one seems to like it.
Haha! You’d have to be known as Polythene Steve!
 

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,113
#74
Yes, I agree with Colin on that point. Back in the “olden days” children, men and women who worked in mills, down coal mines, up chimneys all had terrible health problems which were only cured by death. Even the rich chose to live by the seaside for months on end because living in the cities was bad for their health.

Haha! You’d have to be known as Polythene Steve!
Isn't it "t' olden days"?

Polythene Steve! I like it. It's very punk. I still have enough hair to go for a Mohican...though I'm not sure my barber would approve.
 

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,113
#78
Shinyitus, my current collection of mods
Bloomin' 'eck lad - that's quite a bunch. I can see you're a bit of a mech man tho', and I'm pleased to see a Stingray X front and centre (next to a trio of Nemis?).
Got a few of them myself...only (ahem) 'in the style of' types though. I used to run one in 18350 mode...with a custom-built switch, which I knocked up from a piece of nickel silver and fitted with a solid silver centre pin.
It got trumped by a Vaporesso Target Mini, which is about the same height as the 18350 Stingray - but more than double the battery capacity (800 v 1500mah).

I think my next foray will be into squonking...as soon as they bring out a regulated mod that isn't the size of a pasty.
 

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,113
#80
Don't, it's poisonous.
There was a lot of kerfuffle a few years ago when people were claiming that vapour was anti-freeze. In fact it is...but it's not 'that' anti-freeze'.
There was much tiresome discussion that centred around the fact that there's more than one glycol in the family.
It all died a death when it was pointed out that whisky is an antifreeze too.