Saxophone beginners Two-toning

Colin1 · Jan 9, 2015

I'm having trouble with my F E D pads, not massive trouble but I'm wondering what I need to do to get it under control.

I have a habit of two-toning on the lower hand pads, starting high before settling in to the correct note. I don't think there are any leaks (even minor) on my B A G pads - does embouchure modify as you make your way across the scale?

ProfJames · Jan 9, 2015

It takes more "puff" to get lower!

Colin1 · Jan 9, 2015

So just pour the coals on a bit for the F E D notes?

ProfJames · Jan 9, 2015

Correct, it'll come!

Colin1 · Jan 9, 2015

Phew! Just an 'experience' thing then

I'll let you know how I get on, I'm busy mauling my F major scale at the moment

ProfJames · Jan 9, 2015

You have got a tutor haven't you?

Colin1 · Jan 9, 2015

Yes, I had my first lesson yesterday

ProfJames · Jan 9, 2015

Excellent, he will help you get there, practice, practice, practice!

Colin1 · Jan 9, 2015

ProfJames said:
Excellent, he will help you get there, practice, practice, practice!

She... 🙂

ProfJames · Jan 9, 2015

Colin1 said:
She... 🙂

Even better!

jbtsax · Jan 9, 2015

To answer your question, no the embouchure shouldn't change as you go from one register to the next. When one fingers a note in the low register of the saxophone and it tends to sound an octave higher it is generally caused by not having the right airstream and shape inside the mouth and throat. What is happening is that you are bringing out a harmonic above the desired note.

Some things that have helped my students when they have had this problem:

Open the throat like the first part of a yawn before the swallow reflex takes over.
Blow with warm air.
Feel as if you are directing your air downward toward the LH thumb.
Sing the low note on an "AH" then blow that pitch on your airstream and play with that air.
When the low tone comes out loud and clear, hold it as a long tone.
Think of a "round" embouchure with the corners pushing in.

Colin1 · Jan 9, 2015

Many thanks for that jbtsax
I've copied that into Word and printed it, I'll take it over to my stand and work through it

Thanks to all who have replied

Rob Pealing · Jan 14, 2015

jbtsax said:
To answer your question, no the embouchure shouldn't change as you go from one register to the next. When one fingers a note in the low register of the saxophone and it tends to sound an octave higher it is generally caused by not having the right airstream and shape inside the mouth and throat. What is happening is that you are bringing out a harmonic above the desired note.

Some things that have helped my students when they have had this problem:

Open the throat like the first part of a yawn before the swallow reflex takes over.

Blow with warm air.

Feel as if you are directing your air downward toward the LH thumb.

Sing the low note on an "AH" then blow that pitch on your airstream and play with that air.

When the low tone comes out loud and clear, hold it as a long tone.

Think of a "round" embouchure with the corners pushing in.

I should preface this by saying that I have a degree in human anatomy. You open your throat by relaxing the muscles, there are no muscles that you contract to do this.

jbtsax · Jan 14, 2015

Rob Pealing said:
I should preface this by saying that I have a degree in human anatomy. You open your throat by relaxing the muscles, there are no muscles that you contract to do this.

Hmmm. I don't think I said that you do contract any muscles when trying to relax the throat. :confused2:

Colin1 · Jan 14, 2015

jbtsax said:
Hmmm. I don't think I said that you do contract any muscles when trying to relax the throat.

That bullet list you gave me in post #11 is really doing the trick

Rob Pealing · Jan 14, 2015

jbtsax said:
Hmmm. I don't think I said that you do contract any muscles when trying to relax the throat.

You did not, you said open it which could be taken as something active whereas I think of relaxation as passive and when this was said to me initially I found it a little confusing.

Maybe it is my pedantic science mind.

kevgermany · Jan 14, 2015

Actually a good point. We talk about opening the throat, but not that it's a relaxation exercise. However if you follow/work through Jbt's method you'll realise it's relaxation, not tensing muscles.

jbtsax · Jan 15, 2015

In my experience, throat in its totally relaxed position is not as open as it can be. Doing the first part of a yawn or singing "AHH" expands the throat area by using the surrounding muscles. I'm not convinced that a "passive" relaxed muscle state accurately describes what experienced players and vocalists do when they open the throat and oral cavity. It is true that the throat and neck area can be constricted by tensing muscles in that area which is undesirable. But I am not convinced that a passive absence of constriction state is the optimum condition either.

kevgermany · Jan 15, 2015

jbtsax said:
In my experience, throat in its totally relaxed position is not as open as it can be. Doing the first part of a yawn or singing "AHH" expands the throat area by using the surrounding muscles. I'm not convinced that a "passive" relaxed muscle state accurately describes what experienced players and vocalists do when they open the throat and oral cavity. It is true that the throat and neck area can be constricted by tensing muscles in that area which is undesirable. But I am not convinced that a passive absence of constriction state is the optimum condition either.

I think you're right. Just been trying. I find that opening my throat means pulling my larynx down from below. And consciously flattening the back of my tongue.

aldevis · Jan 15, 2015

Also learning to raise the soft palate is a good technique.

Sometimes I find some confusion about the word "embouchure".
When jbtsax say it stays the same across the registers, he (likely) refers to lip pressure and position.

Oral cavity, air speed and pressure vary across the registers, at least in my case.