Jazz The other sax...

[Wade Cornell]

This is a bit of an experiment. As mentioned in another section of the forum there will be posted a number of tracks outside of the mainstream tradition for players to try and improvise on. The idea s to NOT use mainstream style and try to come as close as possible to the feel of this track. This starter track is relatively easy as it's very close to a jazz style samba. The track is not a "standard", it's an original, but as said structurally easy (got to start somewhere!). The sax part is 100% improvised. The first link is an example played by sopranino that's played through a digitech box. A bit different, but that's kind of the object of this exercise.

The second link is the same track without the sax so that you can all try an improvisation and post your version here. There will be more and very different tracks to follow (maybe one a day posted until everybody says STOP!)
"Goose, The Duck" | free Jazz backing track
"Feel The Duck?" | free Jazz backing track

 

[Nick Wyver]

I had a go. This is it:
Feed the Duck a sop.mp3 - Box
It would have been handy to be able to download the track rather than play it and record through Audacity, but it seems to have worked ok.

 

[Targa]

I had a go. This is it:
Feed the Duck a sop.mp3 - Box
It would have been handy to be able to download the track rather than play it and record through Audacity, but it seems to have worked ok.

A very nice piece of sax playing to listen to, unlike the original which is the sort of noises I make when I'm hoping to get lucky.

 

[Wade Cornell]

Love the way you got into this and had and had a lot of fun. Man you sure can play. Are you OK with critical comments? Will not give them until you agree. They are minor regarding composition as your playing is very good.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Love the way you got into this and had and had a lot of fun. Man you sure can play. Are you OK with critical comments? Will not give them until you agree. They are minor regarding composition as your playing is very good.

Thanks. Critical comments welcome. It'll be interesting to see if they're the same as my own.

 

[Wade Cornell]

Thanks. Critical comments welcome. It'll be interesting to see if they're the same as my own.

It's wonderful that you've taken up this challenge and brought back three tracks for us to hear. What's especially interesting for me is to hear a difference between the first and third track. It's kind of like you are what you eat...likewise we play what we practice, and that was the point. The first track can be interpreted as being sort of "jazzy" so that's the way it was played. There was backing but no melodic line. Your playing is excellent, yet what the piece required was a melodic line. Each improvised phrase is (in of itself) well done, yet they are all separate ideas that IMHO would work better if they added up to a whole.

Each of these tracks are not strictly jazz, and certainly not mainstream. What's needed is to fit into what's happening and to be a part of the track, whether that's as just contributing to the backing, or taking the lead. A good guide is to consider the music as a whole rather than a showcase for our ability to string together a lot of variations. A listener hears the entire piece and usually isn't interested in a large conglomeration of phrases that are not linked. Several techniques can help. In this case a melodic line (very tough when improvising!) would probably work best. Repetition can also give continuity, so can help make it a whole. If trying to play a number of different ideas leaving space before starting the next can let the backing give the continuity and allow the previous idea to settle before starting the next. The idea in most music isn't to impress, it's to make the best sound/music that we can. You can be the lead in this or backing, in either case it has to work as a whole. It's not just about us as a soloist. The music comes first.

Pete Thomas recently posted on the other topic thread an interesting comment that is pertinent: "my wake up call was after leaving Leeds and getting a few breaks doing recording sessions - I learnt quickly that to survive on that scene then I need to throw out most of the jazz concepts. Jazz was almost a dirty word with many pop producers as they seemed fed up with session musicians who wanted to just show off jazz licks etc. so my lack of technique in that dept actually served me quite well."

Melodic techniques are a topic unto themselves, yet deserve a mention. Tension and release, builds, call and response, and climaxes are all things that give narrative and make a track communicate to the listener.

You've got tone, technique, and lots of ideas. They just need to be reorganized to work in these other forms of music.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Thanks for that. Interesting.
I hardly ever play "jazz". So, I suspect, being let loose with a backing track I tend to play too much. My usual gig is with rock/blues/funk bands where I spend a lot of time doing nothing but the occasional fills and solos. I'm very aware that no one wants to hear some idiot noodling away in the background to everything. I know far to many players who do exactly that and I just wish they'd shut up sometimes.
All of the tracks would probably benefit from more listening by me (I only played Underwater once with no preliminary working out). I really had very little idea where I was going with any of it and it obviously shows.
Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment.
I'll have a listen to your versions tomorrow with a bit of luck. 🙂

 

[Wade Cornell]

Thanks for that. Interesting.
I hardly ever play "jazz". So, I suspect, being let loose with a backing track I tend to play too much. My usual gig is with rock/blues/funk bands where I spend a lot of time doing nothing but the occasional fills and solos. I'm very aware that no one wants to hear some idiot noodling away in the background to everything. I know far to many players who do exactly that and I just wish they'd shut up sometimes.
All of the tracks would probably benefit from more listening by me (I only played Underwater once with no preliminary working out). I really had very little idea where I was going with any of it and it obviously shows.
Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment.
I'll have a listen to your versions tomorrow with a bit of luck. 🙂

Very glad that you've taken all of that constructively. The "Underwater" track definitely had an undecided vibe until around 2:15 when you settled down and were in sync with the feel. You may be disappointed hearing my versions as they tend to be fairly low key. My technique is limited, but I'm told my ears are big (you aren't my grandma!).

 

[Ivan]

It's wonderful that you've taken up this challenge and brought back three tracks for us to hear. What's especially interesting for me is to hear a difference between the first and third track. It's kind of like you are what you eat...likewise we play what we practice, and that was the point. The first track can be interpreted as being sort of "jazzy" so that's the way it was played. There was backing but no melodic line. Your playing is excellent, yet what the piece required was a melodic line. Each improvised phrase is (in of itself) well done, yet they are all separate ideas that IMHO would work better if they added up to a whole.

Each of these tracks are not strictly jazz, and certainly not mainstream. What's needed is to fit into what's happening and to be a part of the track, whether that's as just contributing to the backing, or taking the lead. A good guide is to consider the music as a whole rather than a showcase for our ability to string together a lot of variations. A listener hears the entire piece and usually isn't interested in a large conglomeration of phrases that are not linked. Several techniques can help. In this case a melodic line (very tough when improvising!) would probably work best. Repetition can also give continuity, so can help make it a whole. If trying to play a number of different ideas leaving space before starting the next can let the backing give the continuity and allow the previous idea to settle before starting the next. The idea in most music isn't to impress, it's to make the best sound/music that we can. You can be the lead in this or backing, in either case it has to work as a whole. It's not just about us as a soloist. The music comes first.

Pete Thomas recently posted on the other topic thread an interesting comment that is pertinent: "my wake up call was after leaving Leeds and getting a few breaks doing recording sessions - I learnt quickly that to survive on that scene then I need to throw out most of the jazz concepts. Jazz was almost a dirty word with many pop producers as they seemed fed up with session musicians who wanted to just show off jazz licks etc. so my lack of technique in that dept actually served me quite well."

Melodic techniques are a topic unto themselves, yet deserve a mention. Tension and release, builds, call and response, and climaxes are all things that give narrative and make a track communicate to the listener.

You've got tone, technique, and lots of ideas. They just need to be reorganized to work in these other forms of music.

Food for thought

I recorded some attempts earlier today but I think my approach should change according to these principles, because they make sense

 

[Wade Cornell]

Food for thought

I recorded some attempts earlier today but I think my approach should change according to these principles, because they make sense

Hopefully you've listened to Nick's tracks first to see if the comments ring true or fit. IMHO it's always a good idea to take in information, and, in the case of the arts to try and see/hear through the eyes and ears of others. That doesn't mean that any one opinion is absolute. It's also valid in the arts to "do your own thing". The only caveat would be "what is your goal/aim as an artist/musician"? Is it to communicate and give others an experience/story/vision? Then it can be worthwhile to find out how well you've accomplished your goals. If it's about giving an expose of your talent/abilities, then that's another thing.

The mainstream style is about the individual demonstrating their technical abilities in performing variations on a theme. For most other styles of music it's about the piece itself. Songs tell stories; instrumentals may also tell stories or just set moods; dance music...well, is for dancing! Most musical styles are not about an individual's technical skills. Showing off those skills may not fit or be disruptive unless a solo is specificall called for or accommodatred. It's about putting the music first and using whatever skill we have for that purpose. The quote from Pete is very relevant in this. How many jobs/calls are there for mainstream players? The sax can be relevant as an instrument in many situations/styles, and those can also be improvised, but it's seldom a mainstream style of improvisation that's desirable.

Simple question to ask oneself: Am I playing to show off my abilities or to enhance this piece of music? Another observation (not necessairly based on mainstream playing) : The best musicians tend to make everything sound easy. It's the amateurs that try to make everything sound difficult.

 

[Nick Wyver]

You may be disappointed hearing my versions as they tend to be fairly low key. My technique is limited, but I'm told my ears are big (you aren't my grandma!).

Having listened to them I'm not sure why I should be disappointed. Yes, they're low key, very different from my efforts and enhancing the track rather than smothering it. The ears comment is probably telling - having the confidence to play slowly knowing that it all fits rather than throwing a lot of notes about hoping that some of them stick.
I'll probably have a go at #4 later, but after today I'll be off until the middle of next week.

 

[taiwanpaul]

Here my version. I listened to and had a jam on this earlier in the week, knew it was in b minor, but this morning the wife and kids were on their way back home, so it was hit record and.........

https://soundcloud.com/user-464266162%2Ffeel-the-duck-saturday-morning1

View: https://soundcloud.com/user-464266162/feel-the-duck-saturday-morning1

 

[Wade Cornell]

Here my version. I listened to and had a jam on this earlier in the week, knew it was in b minor, but this morning the wife and kids were on their way back home, so it was hit record and.........

https://soundcloud.com/user-464266162%2Ffeel-the-duck-saturday-morning1

View: https://soundcloud.com/user-464266162/feel-the-duck-saturday-morning1

Yea, man you've got great ears. Smart giving some space between phrases so that they don't pile up. Same comment as the other track re mixing. Hope to hear you try a few more of the other styles that will be coming your way.