Tone or Sound Tell me about Earl Bostic, how did he get that constant growl?

[6441]

I'm not surprised, how could you get any work as a saxophonist if you weren't putting out a confident vibe? But all this talk brings up this important concept of accessibility. @jbtsax mentions Ace Cannon. Listening to that, I think the playing wasn't hard in that tune, but he likely could do a lot more. This brings me to the question of why everyone talks down Kenny G, who I have never heard. It must be his success, he's like the Beatles being more famous than Jesus Christ (according to Lennon?). Kenny G is a household name, although not in any of our households, probably. Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, only jazz fans will know who they are.

While we are way off topic, I'll mention out of laziness to create a new post, that we saw Green Book last night and it's a great movie.

Wait, can @Jeanette rip my OT comment out of my own post? I'm still lazy.

 

[Pete Thomas]

My question is, is he constantly humming to get that sound on the alto?

It’s a growl, yes.

The saxophone growl - a lot easier than you think if you follow this guide

 

[Halfers]

I'm not surprised, how could you get any work as a saxophonist if you weren't putting out a confident vibe?

By not shy, I was referring to the fact his style is very outgoing and expressive. Hardly laid back. I'm not an expert on Jazz history so perhaps this is indicative of the playing style of his era.

 

[6441]

It’s a growl, yes.

Thanks Pete, I've read up a lot of about it, but usually a player will not maintain it throughout a song, right? Bostic seems an exception there?
The last paragraph sums up the answer nicely:

Growling as a Part of Your Tone

Ideally you will learn to control your growl to such an extent that you are able to add just a very very slight amount to your sound. You should be able to do this so instead of being heard as an actual growl, what it does is just give your tone a little bit of edge or brightness.

 

[6441]

By not shy, I was referring to the fact his style is very outgoing and expressive. Hardly laid back. I'm not an expert on Jazz history so perhaps this is indicative of the playing style of his era.

I think again, you had to put it out there to get noticed. Outrageous behavior eventually became the norm.

 

[Halfers]

This brings me to the question of why everyone talks down Kenny G, who I have never heard.

Does everyone talk down Kenny G? I've noticed that he is a bit of a source of Joke material within the limited Sax Community I've been exposed to. I've not heard a great deal of him, but what I have heard I can understand why he's so popular. Whilst he's not quite in the category of 'daily listening material for me, he plays well.

 

[6441]

The last joke meme I saw on YouTube was "Kenny G plays Giant Steps" and it's him playing a long note running in to the crowd. I think someone superimposed the Giant Steps changes over it. I didn't stay for the whole show, just a few secos on my way to something else.

I've seen recurring jokes about him and some bad mouthing right here on the Café. It's one thing to not like a musician, but to spend energy on negative aspects does not in any way aggrandize the person doing it. We all eventually spout negativity, but it's a good idea to think twoce and NOT publish it, even on a forum. It's bad energy and has no good side, IMO.

 

[thomsax]

This brings me to the question of why everyone talks down Kenny G, who I have never heard. It must be his success, he's like the Beatles being more famous than Jesus Christ (according to Lennon?). Kenny G is a household name, although not in any of our households, probably. Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, only jazz fans will know who they are.

Kenny G is an interesting guy! He took place in Barry White's band as a teenager (16 or 17 tears old?): Didn't took any music classes, he became an accountant. One of the gratest R&B and early Rock & Roll saxophonist, Red Prysock, were not mentioned when they talk about big names in Rock. He was good and he knew it! Back in the 50's music were heard on the radio and jukeboxes. Prysock had a mega hit with the song "Handclapin'". Little Richard was another guy that didn't fit in.

 

[Halfers]

The last joke meme I saw on YouTube was "Kenny G plays Giant Steps" and it's him playing a long note running in to the crowd. I think someone superimposed the Giant Steps changes over it. I didn't stay for the whole show, just a few secos on my way to something else.

I've seen recurring jokes about him and some bad mouthing right here on the Café. It's one thing to not like a musician, but to spend energy on negative aspects does not in any way aggrandize the person doing it. We all eventually spout negativity, but it's a good idea to think twoce and NOT publish it, even on a forum. It's bad energy and has no good side, IMO.

As I'm seriously ill with Man Flu, (probably won't last the day!) and quite bored, I did a bit of Kenny G searching on the Forum. Actually, the first half dozen pages on the search generally came up with mainly quite positive comments about his playing technique and ability. Yes, a few light hearted mentions (Kenny G on a loop 😱 kind of thing), but lots of positives, even if his music isn't to everyone's personal taste I think respect for him as a musician is generally quite high.

Anyway, apologies for the off topic. Where's me Lemsip?

 

[Pete Thomas]

Thanks Pete, I've read up a lot of about it, but usually a player will not maintain it throughout a song, right?

That all depends on the genre and whether the growl is part of your style. IThere is no actual "rule" . I think it is OK for a growl if that is a signature part of your sound (as it may well be with rock and roll), other effects such as flutter tongue might be a bit odd if used constantly instead of as an occasional effect.

 

[6441]

In my posts, nothing is really OT. We moved from Bostic to who we'd rather listen to, then respect. Someone siad here something like "I'm talking about music, not Kenny G twaddle", that's the one I saw here, but there are even emails I've seen -- I hate when people forward these, by the way -- with elaborate Kenny G mocking stories. No one is forcing anyone to listen or care about him.

 

[John Laughter]

Check "thesis";

Earl Bostic

 

[6441]

I mentioned, quoted and linked to it in the original post. Here's another on that site: Earl Bostic Bio.

The author of the site is curator of The ARChive of Contemporary Music.

 

[thomsax]

We are all differnet. Some guys can play with a "growl" tone alot. I think Earl Bostic could play with a heavy diaphragm vibrato and he add some other techniques as well. Bostic was a complete muscian.

 

[6441]

My interest in growl is both theoretical and concrete. I find my tone is wimpy in places where it needs to be more assertive, like funk tunes. I've read a lot about growl, seen YouTube videos and listened to players like Joe Sublett and had the same question. It sounds like he's almost constantly using the effect, it's part of his tone, and it sounds good in his music. Thanks to @spike for mentioning Sublett and Holman here on café.

 

[Dibbs]

I would rather listen to Ornette Coleman than Earl Bostic,.

Today, my order of preference would be:

Charile Parker
Earl Bostik
Ornette Coleman
Kenny G

Another day it might be different.

 

[spike]

A way to fatten up the sound in the upper register is to play without the octave key and let some of the lower partials into the note.
I roll my lower lip a little to vary the amount of reed vibrating which in turn controls how much of the low register partials get into the sound.
I don't know how Andy Snitzer does it but he often plays with a very fat raspy sound, and it doesn't sound (to me) like he's growling.

 

[thomsax]

Clarence Clemons played with a natural "growl". Big Man playing King Curtis "Soul Serenade"

View: https://youtu.be/n3RCr-W_idk


I get a "fat, greasy and guttural" sound when i play a plasticover #4 bari (#5 is out of production) reed on a tenor mpc with a 0.130" tip openig. Your mouthpiece and ligature must be able to hold a bari reed and also to play in tune. My tone is not "clean and crispy". Ok, in rock and blues but they didn't want me in a big band or the classical octette I tried to play with. I played a more ordinary set-up back then.

 

[Halfers]

Clarence Clemons played with a natural "growl". Big Man playing King Curtis "Soul Serenade"

View: https://youtu.be/n3RCr-W_idk


I get a "fat, greasy and guttural" sound when i play a plasticover #4 bari (#5 is out of production) reed on a tenor mpc with a 0.130" tip openig. Your mouthpiece and ligature must be able to hold a bari reed and also to play in tune. My tone is not "clean and crispy". Ok, in rock and blues but they didn't want me in a big band or the classical octette I tried to play with. I played a more ordinary set-up back then.

Ah Man, Clarence talking about reaching the big Seven O on that video. Never did quite make it.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Thanks Pete, I've read up a lot of about it, but usually a player will not maintain it throughout a song, right? Bostic seems an exception there?

Listen to some old Gato Barbieri. El Pampero for instance.
Or me, come to that, if I'm feeling in the mood.