Mouthpieces STM

[eb424]

When a table is flattened, often the facing needs to redone too, as the break point will have moved. Especially on a Babbitt- made STM. As Babbitt is known for non-flat tables.

Would it need to be changed to a short facing tho..

 

[Dr G]

Would it need to be changed to a short facing tho..

One man’s short facing is another’s “facing”. We don’t know what “short” is. Best to put a number on it. Even then we don’t know the mathematical model of facing curvature. You could become the next internet expert on facings, but it really doesn’t matter if it doesn’t play well for you. Same with tables. Some techs are know for their modifications to “perfect”, whether it is an intentional flat spot in the facing, or an intentional divot in the table.

Bottom line: Get a good one and leave the magic out of the mix.

“Stop wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood” John Prine (from the chorus of Dear Abby)

P.S. and OBTW: I know you won’t listen to my suggestion to focus on playing a mouthpiece, so here’s a resource for some light reading. FAQ | Mojo on Wix

 

[eb424]

One man’s short facing is another’s “facing”. We don’t know what “short” is. Best to put a number on it. Even then we don’t know the mathematical model of facing curvature. You could become the next internet expert on facings, but it really doesn’t matter if it doesn’t play well for you. Same with tables. Some techs are know for their modifications to “perfect”, whether it is an intentional flat spot in the facing, or an intentional divot in the table.

Bottom line: Get a good one and leave the magic out of the mix.

“Stop wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood” John Prine (from the chorus of Dear Abby)

P.S. and OBTW: I know you won’t listen to my suggestion to focus on playing a mouthpiece, so here’s a resource for some light reading. FAQ | Mojo on Wix

Bit harsh ive been playing the same one for 2 years

 

[Pete Thomas]

Bit harsh ive been playing the same one for 2 years

It's not "harsh" its advice from an experienced player. What I mean is you have mentioned issues with short facings, so you need to back that up with which length and (also importantly ) which type of curve on that short facing you have an issue with. ie not all short facings are the same and one should not generalise. It makes just as little sense to say "I don't like short facings" as it is to say "I need to play 7* mouthpieces."

It doesn't work like that.

 

[eb424]

It's not "harsh" its advice from an experienced player. What I mean is you have mentioned issues with short facings, so you need to back that up with which length and (also importantly ) which type of curve on that short facing you have an issue with. ie not all short facings are the same and one should not generalise. It makes just as little sense to say "I don't like short facings" as it is to say "I need to play 7* mouthpieces."

It doesn't work like that.

The original question was whether the S possibly stood for short. I think STMs have a med long facing and I am ok on the 6* just closes up once in a while. High F# not so easy so wondered if a 7* may resolve this. I just wanted the same mouthpiece cleaned up with a slightly larger opening I thought the facing would still be med long. I realise the piece would probably play well but thought that short facings were a little more resistant as there is less reed to vibrate,

 

[Pete Thomas]

I just wanted the same mouthpiece cleaned up with a slightly larger opening

You can buy two STMs but may not get of the same mouthpiece. Even more so if one had been refaced. Cleaning you can do yourself.

 

[Dr G]

The original question was whether the S possibly stood for short. I think STMs have a med long facing and I am ok on the 6* just closes up once in a while. High F# not so easy so wondered if a 7* may resolve this. I just wanted the same mouthpiece cleaned up with a slightly larger opening I thought the facing would still be med long. I realise the piece would probably play well but thought that short facings were a little more resistant as there is less reed to vibrate,

Sure. So what does “Short” mean? What is “med long”?

Some manufacturers might have the same facing length for all tip openings. Others might scale each facing length to the top opening. Still others might have the same facing length for three tip openings, then change to a different length for the next four.

I suggest you leave the actual measurements to the tech that refaces the mouthpiece. I do. All I ask is that the ‘piece is balanced well for their design. If I don’t get along with that, then I may be asking the wrong person to do the work, or I need to rethink what I want.

“Hi, I’d like some medium large shoes, please.”

 

[eb424]

Sure. So what does “Short” mean? What is “med long”?

Some manufacturers might have the same facing length for all tip openings. Others might scale each facing length to the top opening. Still others might have the same facing length for three tip openings, then change to a different length for the next four.

I suggest you leave the actual measurements to the tech that refaces the mouthpiece. I do. All I ask is that the ‘piece is balanced well for their design. If I don’t get along with that, then I may be asking the wrong person to do the work, or I need to rethink what I want.

“Hi, I’d like some medium large shoes, please.”

But if shoes were measured in short medium or long that would be fine like trouser lengths. Think what I am saying is im not really bothered about the exact measurement of the facing a regular stm 6* works for me, almost. Id like to put a bit more air thtough so was thinking7* same mouthpiece same design chamber etc. If someone has worked on a piece and felt the need to put "S" on it this surely denotes that the facing has been shortened. If you liked the attributes of the stm would you chance they had been changed.

 

[skeller047]

Would it need to be changed to a short facing tho..

No, though it could be. Table reduction would be required to shorten a facing, hopefully that would be done so the table was flat...

I don't think anyone has answered your question about what Doc Tenney meant by the "S" on the mouthpiece. I personally don't know. It's not part of the original markings from Link (or Babbitt...). A Link 7* facing is usually around 24 millimeters long (to the 0.0015" feeler gauge - I know, mixed units, but that's what refacers do....)

 

[Dr G]

But if shoes were measured in short medium or long that would be fine like trouser lengths. Think what I am saying is im not really bothered about the exact measurement of the facing a regular stm 6* works for me, almost. Id like to put a bit more air thtough so was thinking7* same mouthpiece same design chamber etc. If someone has worked on a piece and felt the need to put "S" on it this surely denotes that the facing has been shortened. If you liked the attributes of the stm would you chance they had been changed.

If you want to put more air through your STM 6*, adjust your reed selection and your embouchure and airstream, and blow. I’ll bet a donut to a Euro that I can play louder on my classical setup than you are on your 6*. It’s not all on the mouthpiece.

And no, just because you see an “S”, it does not surely denote that the facing has been shortened. And even if it has, I’ll bet yet another donut that it is a more efficient facing than the bog standard Link. I have owned and played several of Doc Tenney’s mouthpieces and know them to play well.

If you really want to know what the “S” stands for, please let me know and I’ll reach out to someone that knew him well. I’m guessing it really just doesn’t matter.

And since you mentioned trouser lengths: I am oh so confident that trousers that most consider long would be short on me (I am a petite 6’4”). It’s all relative. That’s why I check trousers for an actual length rather than someone’s impression.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I wonder if it’s even possible to make a facing significantly shorter anyway? I think you’d have to grind the table down a lot first, and/or maybe bend the tip.

 

[eb424]

If you want to put more air through your STM 6*, adjust your reed selection and your embouchure and airstream, and blow. I’ll bet a donut to a Euro that I can play louder on my classical setup than you are on your 6*. It’s not all on the mouthpiece.

And no, just because you see an “S”, it does not surely denote that the facing has been shortened. And even if it has, I’ll bet yet another donut that it is a more efficient facing than the bog standard Link. I have owned and played several of Doc Tenney’s mouthpieces and know them to play well.

If you really want to know what the “S” stands for, please let me know and I’ll reach out to someone that knew him well. I’m guessing it really just doesn’t matter.

And since you mentioned trouser lengths: I am oh so confident that trousers that most consider long would be short on me (I am a petite 6’4”). It’s all relative. That’s why I check trousers for an actual length rather than someone’s impression.

Im really not trying to be argumentative or question experience. I have no doubt you could play louder than me. I am 5ft 4, am a heavy smoker with copd, a heavy drinker who plays the sax for fun and as a large asthma pump lol. Size whether lung or stomach capacity has got to do with this surely. Earlier in the thread I said I cant step up to a 2.5 plasticover hense trying a 7*. with a 2 reed. ( i have tried other brands up to a 3). Trousers again sorry...so obviously I need a short leg pair of jeans if i went to buy and they only had a long simple i buy them and get them taken up to my size. Try them on but noooo they are no good, crotch is longer, they are baggier. They dont suit, but now I can only sell to someone they are tailored for. I should have bought what I knew suited me..

 

[Pete Effamy]

whether lung or stomach capacity has got to do with this surely

Mainly technique Eddie. I'm an Asthma "half a lung" too, but I make a fair noise.

 

[thomsax]

@eb424 I like your style .... don't get to deep into mouthpieces and reeds .... I like what I heard and saw on the " Caroline " video .... a happy man playing the saxophone ....

 

[eb424]

Mainly technique Eddie. I'm an Asthma "half a lung" too, but I make a fair noise.

I was quite happy with my projection and tone for where Im at. Lol

 

[eb424]

@eb424 I like your style .... don't get to deep into mouthpieces and reeds .... I like what I heard and saw on the " Caroline " video .... a happy man playing the saxophone ....

Hey thanks i wasnt tbf..I like my link just wondered what the "S" stood for on a reface.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Hey thanks i wasnt tbf..I like my link just wondered what the "S" stood for on a reface.

Secret? 😩

 

[jazzdoh]

Hey thanks i wasnt tbf..I like my link just wondered what the "S" stood for on a reface.

If you google it, it says :



AI Overview



On a mouthpiece worked on or custom-made by Paul "Doc" Tenney, an "S" typically stands for a
"Slant" signature style or designates a specific, often shorter, facing curve (similar to SMS) designed for a more focused, resistant, and vintage-oriented response.
Here is a breakdown of what the "S" means in the context of Tenney's work:

• Slant Signature Series: Tenney was famous for recreating the baffle and chamber of vintage "Slant Signature" Otto Link Tone Edge hard rubber mouthpieces. An "S" may be used to identify these custom-made, hand-finished reproductions.
• Shorter Facing (SMS): Doc Tenney often worked on Berg Larsen mouthpieces, which have "M" (Medium) and "SMS" (Short) facings. In some contexts, particularly with his custom work, "S" or "SMS" designates a shorter facing that favors a slightly more resistant feel, similar to vintage pieces, requiring a well-developed airstream.
• "S" for Specific Customization: Tenney was known for "blue-printing" mouthpieces, meaning he adjusted the table, tip, and rails to specific, optimized, and often unique, personal specifications.

Doc Tenney was a renowned refacer who took modern, harder rubber blanks and reshaped them to play like highly sought-after 1950s Florida-era mouthpieces, often leaving his signature "Slant" or "Tenney" mark on them.

Don't know if this helps.

I have said this before, when you have these problems you need to try before you buy,
If you go to some music shops and try mpcs you eliminate the ones that are not suitable, even if you don't want to buy new it gives you an idea what works and what doesn't.
You are just buying blind all the time and it's not working.

 

[eb424]

If you google it, it says :



AI Overview



On a mouthpiece worked on or custom-made by Paul "Doc" Tenney, an "S" typically stands for a
"Slant" signature style or designates a specific, often shorter, facing curve (similar to SMS) designed for a more focused, resistant, and vintage-oriented response.
Here is a breakdown of what the "S" means in the context of Tenney's work:

• Slant Signature Series: Tenney was famous for recreating the baffle and chamber of vintage "Slant Signature" Otto Link Tone Edge hard rubber mouthpieces. An "S" may be used to identify these custom-made, hand-finished reproductions.
• Shorter Facing (SMS): Doc Tenney often worked on Berg Larsen mouthpieces, which have "M" (Medium) and "SMS" (Short) facings. In some contexts, particularly with his custom work, "S" or "SMS" designates a shorter facing that favors a slightly more resistant feel, similar to vintage pieces, requiring a well-developed airstream.
• "S" for Specific Customization: Tenney was known for "blue-printing" mouthpieces, meaning he adjusted the table, tip, and rails to specific, optimized, and often unique, personal specifications.

Doc Tenney was a renowned refacer who took modern, harder rubber blanks and reshaped them to play like highly sought-after 1950s Florida-era mouthpieces, often leaving his signature "Slant" or "Tenney" mark on them.

Don't know if this helps.

I have said this before, when you have these problems you need to try before you buy,
If you go to some music shops and try mpcs you eliminate the ones that are not suitable, even if you don't want to buy new it gives you an idea what works and what doesn't.
You are just buying blind all the time and it's not working.

Hey thanks, couldnt try before I buy so I bought a regular cleaned up 7* metal link. I bet it played great but couldn't chance it.

 

[Pete Thomas]

so I bought a regular cleaned up 7* metal link. I bet it played great but couldn't chance it.

What do you mean by cleaned up? and why would you bet it plays great?

If you go to some music shops and try mpcs you eliminate the ones that are not suitable, even if you don't want to buy new it gives you an idea what works and what doesn't.
You are just buying blind all the time and it's not working.

This is the only way to not be chancing it. Even ordering a new one (Otto Link) online is chancing it.