Stage Monitors

[ken]

Stage Monitors:-

Is the optimal position always in front of the performer or can they (correctly) be to the side of the stage?

Should monitors be pre or post mix? If the latter, should each monitor be mixed to emphasise the individual instrument/vocal of the respective performer or all emphasised for kick and bass (as a starting point) or something else?


Thanks for any

Ken.

 

[Pete Thomas]

There are many variations. A small rig might just feed the outfront mix back to the monitors.

Larger rigs have a dedicated monitor mix either from the main board and even larger would have a separaete monitor board at the side of the stage.

Smaller foldback systems tend to just have wedges in front, larger ones have side speakers as well, though I don't see why you can't just have them at the side, but they woulld be genrally for the whole band not individual musicians.

If the PA has the possibilty of individual performers' mixes then that should be done (but is time consuming).

The issue of amps is variable. If the performer has their own effects on the amp, then probaly not necessary to add any in the mix from the outfront or monitor board.

Not quite sure what you mean by inline and main amp. If by main amp you mean the power amp for the out front sound, then these don't have effects. Effects are added at the mixing board (usually via outboard units) but some mixing desks have their own effects as well.

 

[lee_]

Generally horn mikes are gonna go straight through the PA. If the PA doesn't have adequate power, or if the soundman is a knob, the monitors are gonna gradually fade into the background until they're no use to the players at all. Lots of times the sound man overreacts to the slightest feedback and turns the monitors way down.

I show up with my clip-on mic, some short cables and a
mic splitter. Mine is a little box about 4" square. Then I run my signal straight to the PA mixing board, and the split signal into one of these.

I usually put the powered cube behind me or off to the side. Sometimes on a mike stand, sometimes on top of something else that's convenient.

There are a number of other powered speakers made for this purpose, too.

With this setup, ear buds are also a possibility, although I've never tried that.

 

[ken]

Thanks Pete, thanks Lee,

The setup at the moment (basically) is, everyone is going through their individual amps (which some are also using as their monitor) and then DI'ing into the mixer then out to the main amp and then out to the FOH and also another couple of monitors. It's fairly typical, but it is messy and a bitch at times with feedback.



Personally, although I'm not the deciding factor, I like monitors to emphasise, progressively kick, (snare if mic'ed), bass, rhythm, vocal in that decreasing order. I've come to realise that some just want to hear themselves.

Sorry Pete, main amp I meant mixer and in-line was talking outboard.




Thanks again for the help.

Ken.

 

[Bobby G]

Hi Ken, usually you'll find it's guitarists who mic up their amps, as they like the sound that comes out of their speakers to be fed into the PA. Typically this applies to a lead player, so the soundknob, sorry, soundman can balance the volume when said guitarist is soloing.

I have found in the past that, imho, far too much is fed through the PA - in a smaller venue you can often get away with nothing being mic'ed except vocals (and hirns if you have 'em); mics on drums, guitars and DI on bass are used too often as far as I can see, which can make for a lousy onstage sound. If less is mic'ed up, you probably won't want such a sophisticated
foldback system, as the clarity onstage will be improved, maybe just wedges for vocals. Also, I have found that with nowt but vocals through the PA, once the balance is set the out-front sound has much-improved clarity too. All too oftenwith everything going through the PA it[s the vocals that get lost.

A medium-sized club I play at fairly regularly has wedges, side-fills and a big ol' speaker on a table at the back for the drummer (separate mixes available all from the one desk), all of which works fine onstage, if a little muddy, but out-front, with everything running through the PA it can get quite horrific if the guitars and drums are very loud, which they usually are.

In jazz clubs, it's quite different - usually only a small PA for the horn(s) and vocals, very often only one or two mics, plus sometimes the piano is DI'ed, also very often the speakers are placed at the back of the playing area so they function as combined out-front PA and monitors, or there is one wedge monitor in front of the horn/vocal mic.

What kind of band are you involved in, Ken? How many members, etc? Do you get to do much blowing yourself?

Cheers, Bob

 

[Bobby G]

Sounds like a fun band Ken. Nothing wrong with doing covers, jazzers have been doing it for decades. 😉 There are plenty of covers bands around who put their own slant on the tried and tested classics.

:rant: It's the tribute bands that get me! Why put all your energy and ability into sounding exactly like someone else, especially as 9 times out of 10 it's culturally redundant - I saw a Hendrix tribute band about 3 years ago, and they could play, ok, shut-yer-eyes-and-it's-really-them-oh-wow vibe, but totally meaningless outside its place in the turmoil of the late 60's. And they're so quick! I mean, there's already a Coldplay tribute band, fer effsake. As if one Coldplay ain't enough! :rant: over.

Still, if you enjoy it, why not. Some people make a few quid out of it. It's market forces innit, and we have to let the market decide don't we :rant: yeah which means Bye-bye to my local hospital and rural post offices.

It's Sunday, I have to go to work and I'm Not Happy 😡

Cheers, Bob

 

[ken]

Agree with about tributes etc, but you also have to take into consideration that this is Spain Bob... there's tributes (and covers) a mass, with an Elvis, Blues Bruvs, or whatever the vogue is at the time, falling outta every second bar/club... gets very tiresome.

I do like to do things my own way, which you can bet ya socks ain't technically or theoretically correct (as long as it sounds ok) and I enjoy it much more if it's different to what's been done before... oh no, don't tell me that's jazz :?

As to the ???'s again, do you have any experience with the in-ear monitoring like Lee through in?... this has really got me thinking.

Hope it's a short work day with double time and call-out.

Ken.

 

[Bobby G]

I have no experience with in-ear monitoring Ken, sorry.

You've touched on two I can live with there - Elvis as a model for tributes is very malleable, open to interpretation, camp, kitsch, irony e.g. Pete Singh the Sikh Elvis, the Mexican Elvis 'El Vez', the Welsh Elvis 'Elvis Preseli' or is that Elvis Pwllheli etc etc etc, although maybe in Spain they prefer a straighter tribute to the King. And the Blooz Bros which to start with was a tribute to r'n'b & soul in general, they just happened to come up with a very copiable look, which has maybe been a little overdone now.

Incidentally, did I dream it or was there a band called Dread Zeppelin, who used to do reggae versions of Led Zep tunes with an Elvis soundalike frontman?

Finally, yes! I am on standby and callout, and it's a short day (ten til four)

Cheers, Bob

 

[lee_]

Ken, my thought was that, if I decided to go with the ear buds, I'd just run them out of the headphone-out of my little Roland cube monitor. You can get in-ear wireless monitor systems, but that can be expensive and technical.

In our band, everybody wants something different in the monitor(s). The singer wants to hear the keyboard, from which he gets most of his cues. The horns want to hear themselves. Since I alternate between alto and tenor, I really need to hear myself.

Problem is to do monitors that way, you have to have numerous dedicated monitor channels and a good bit of power for handling monitors only. (at band practice yesterday, the guy who owns and runs the PA was showing us a new 2400-watt amp he's putting in for monitors only!)

 

[ken]

I know what you mean Bob, but the key (for me) is the overwhelming amount of tributes etc., out here.

A reggae zep with elvis front, I can't even imagine it... was you still smoking at that time and if so was it a legal wrap! 😉

Ken.

 

[Bobby G]

I was still smoking, but only tobacco. Could have been a flashback, I suppose.

Can anyone else confirm or deny the existence of this group? Led Zep covers, done reggae style, Elvis lookalike singing. Called Dread Zeppelin. I'm starting to worry about myself now.

Cheers, Bob

 

[ken]

Thanks Lee, understand what your saying about in-ear.

Also agree that everyone wants to hear something different, hence one of my reasons for thinking of getting all the monitors through the mixer... do away with as many seperate amps (current indiv. monitors) being gradually turned up and up in an all out competition.

We've probaly got the capacity/overhead on the mixer/amp (combo) for the monitors, but it's only 2 x 400 (800 bridged), nothing near like your 2,400... wow, where are you playing?

Thanks Lee, Bob, Pete... all very helpful.

Ken.