Selmer Reference models

[Col]

I'm thinking about treating myself to a Reference when I hit the half century early next year, and so have tried a few in various shops.

What I've found is how badly they seem to be finished. On most I've played the neck is either flopping around or so stiff you can't pull it out.

I tried one today which the pearl on the A key was chipped so badly it felt odd, another the pads weren't settling at all.


Has anyone else found the same?

 

[jonf]

No, you're not being fussy - it's only right and proper that an instrument which costs that much is properly finished. When I was looking to indulge myself in an expensive sax a couple of years ago, I was distinctly underwhelmed by Selmer. If a Yani T901 which costs just a little over a third of the cost of a Selmer Ref can be beautifully finished, then why not the Selmer?

One man's meat is another man's poisson, but I love my T992. It was, for me, the best sax in a test involving three visits to sax.co.uk in a pretty much money no object purchase. The top flight Yamahas were great too, although the TYS62 was a bit dull.

Having said all this, I'd have thought most shops would have fettled the sax well enough to at least play OK, then make it just right when sold. It's a bit much to be expected to try out a very expensive sax on which the pads won't seat.

 

[nosaxyet]

That all sounds a bit disappointing as I am looking to do something similar though maybe this year. I have heard mixed comments on the Reference though Courtney Pine seems to rate them!

I hope to try out the Reference and a Yani on Thursday whilst mine SX90R is being serviced.

Still I'm in no mad rush.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Does Courtney rate them with no bias (regarding endorsement)? I don't know.

I have been disappointed with every Ref horn I've tried. If you really want a Selmer, then the series II can be a fine horn, but still inconsistent regarding the setup that ends up on the shelf or out of the box.

So far (after a LOT of play testing) , my preference among the expensive horns is the Rampone & Cazzani, but really the proof of the pudding is what you like.

 

[TomMapfumo]

Sounds a frustrating experience for some. I love my Ref 54 Alto and find the sound intoxicating, complex & pretty special - I have the Matt finish which I love - both my sax teachers went on to get one and are very happy with them. maybe I should bin it and get a Walstein. It was close between that and the Rampone & Cazzani when I got the Ref. I must admit that I've heard a lot of Alto's that didn't move me in the same way as either the Ref or Rampone.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, but the Ref sounds like it can suffer from uncertain build quality. maybe I just got lucky.

Kind regards
Tom

 

[nosaxyet]

Pete

I don't know how unbiased he is but his comment is very positive and he says it is better than the MK6.

I did hold a Reference Collector - a flamingo and it was stunning.

 

[Pete Thomas]

nosaxyet wrote:
I don't know how unbiased he is but his comment is very positive and he says it is better than the MK6.

That isn't difficult. The MKVI was a great instrument in its time. I believe it has been surpassed in all but it's collectibility. I still occasionally stumble across some stunning examples, but they seem to be inconsistent. A good MKVI is a good horn, a dodgy one is not.

Anyway. it's all about what suits you. I bet there are some stunningly good Refs out there.

 

[TomMapfumo]

What about a Borgani? Make a special 50th birthday gift! see Saxophone Heaven in Oxford.

Or a new Bauhaus -Walstein?

 

[Col]

I haven't tried a Rampone & Cazzani but certainly will now.

I tried the Reference 36 next to a Mauriat PMXT 66R which I have, and have to say that the feel and tone from the Reference was better, but the Maurfait is well made and I haven't had any problems in the last year.

Surely the retaillers should make sure they're set up right, especially in these credit-crunched times?

 

[nosaxyet]

I will try the Rampone and the top Yani as well as the Reference on Thursday and report back.

Just to complicate things a little I tried a tenor for the first time last week and I'm tempted to move in that direction - well maybe next year. 🙂

 

[griff136]

I agree with Pete,
you get good and bad in any make of sax although the japanese and taiwanese seem top have fgood quality control and they are set up far better than selmers thats for sure.

Yes the retailers should make sure theyre set up right - that sets a good retailer apart from a bad one.

I work for a good retailer where every instrument - even pre owned ones are thoroughly checked before being put out for the customers.

Borganis are very nice so are the R & C's

I have a mark 6 tenor and prefer to play my series 2.

I suppose its horses for courses - you may like the sound and feel of something else.

 

[TomMapfumo]

I bought my Ref 54 in 2006, and a major source of encouragement was a thread on Sax On The Web which asked what was the best alto, a Ref 54 or a Yamaha 875 EX. Approximately 70% went for the Reference. I don't know whether alto saxes have progressed significantly in the past 2 years, or whether Selmer's production has declined over that period.
Interesting question.

Kind regards
Tom

 

[TomMapfumo]

The Thread on the SOTW Forum was entitled "what do you think is the best MODERN alto on the market today?" at http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=30209 . See what you think.

Kind regards
Tom

 

[griff136]

nosaxyet wrote:
I will try the Rampone and the top Yani as well as the Reference on Thursday and report back.

Just to complicate things a little I tried a tenor for the first time last week and I'm tempted to move in that direction - well maybe next year. 🙂

when you do try them and compare - try at least a couple of each model as they can vary
i tried 6 yani 992 altos and one felt stuffy, one the spring tension was too strong and one stood out form the rest

 

[pete_canter]

I've had a reference 54 tenor for 5 or 6 years now and really like it. Must say though that at first there was a lot of back and fro to my repairer as the pads didn't seem to be properly seated and I kept getting small leaks. Since its first full strip down and service which I get done every year it seemed to settle down and I no longer had this problem. I also had a problem with the main stack which seized up on a couple of occasions. This was cured when my repairer Gill Baker in Taunton replaced the steel rod with a phosphor bronze one. I should say I seem to have particularly corrosive spit and generally demolish saxophones quite quickly - there is some spotting in the antique laquer around the bell but this is not as bad as the way the finish disintigrated on my series II. IMHO, the reference also plays and sounds much better than the series II. I agree with Griff that individual horns of the same model vary so try several.

Pete

 

[david_tannahill]

Col, I had a one time chance to buy a higher end sax. My criteria really were that it had to sound better than what i had, feel good to play and would be something that I could treasure and perhaps pass on to the children when I am not of this earth. I think it also depends on your level of experience- I am a relative beginner and not concerned yet with altissamo. In several places, I tried yanis, yamahas, mauriats, keilwerths and selmers. When it came to choosing, I was torn between a keilwerth black shadow and a ref 54 kookaburra alto. What swung it was that someone independently listening to the sound told me what they felt I had on each instrument. The selmer seemed to have a bit more resonance and the keilwerth had a bit more bite. Without knowing the sax I am playing, people say that it does have the distinctive selmer sound. The finish was fine and a few weeks later I noticed a scratch but that might have been me. The only problem apart form crud making the Eb pad stick, is that the neck can be really tight to put on and seems to be worse in this weather. Other than that I personally love it, but if I had picked something else I would have been happy too. Good luck

 

[tryinghard]

Got a new Ref 54 Alto in the last month, and suffered some gurgling on low B, checked out the forums and they confirmed that I was suffering gurgling in low B :s

Then, the gurgling disappeared as I got used to the horn, oops! Forum-induced gurgling I suspect...

The word consistency and Selmer seldom appear in the same sentence, but I've had the same experience as David - a couple of sticky pads and a tight neck. Other than that, I think the sound is slowly coming to the surface and very occasionally (emphasis on the very) I hit a note that sounds downright gorgeous. Then, for a fleeting second, I realise I have the best horn in the world, and then it's gone.

The thing is though, I know it's hidden in there and it's worth seeking it out, surely that makes any instrument worth it's weight in gold.

The thing is, the Ref 54 has the potential of being the best instrument you'll ever play, that's enough for me - the rest is inside.