Off topic Moved from Carrying a tenor on a (motor)bike?

PiccoloPirate · Wednesday at 10:22 AM

Señor Pig,
Would like to know more about this bike/side car.
More pics?
Thanks.

Might make a side car for the kids and grandkids, for the '79 XT500, if they buy a ranch/farm in the Rockies.
Off road only.

PigSquealer · Wednesday at 12:10 PM

PiccoloPirate said:
Señor Pig,
Would like to know more about this bike/side car.
More pics?
Thanks.

Might make a side car for the kids and grandkids, for the '79 XT500, if they buy a ranch/farm in the Rockies.
Off road only.

View attachment 37540

XT 500 isn’t big enough. I’ve had several SR 500’s. Still have one ‘79.
This sidecar frame was hand built in 1995 by EML in Netherlands. 4130 chromoly, hand gas nickel bronze brazed. Nickel plated. A “Universal “ frame kit.
The body work tank / plastics came from Acerbis Italy.
The red protective cushions I made.
The engine came from Mark Zabel in Germany. 5 speed Maico 620 case wet transmission, dry carbon fiber& titanium clutch with Zabel 720cc single two stroke aluminum topend 18:1 compression on Mahle single ring cam ground piston. 13,000-15,000 rpm. Water cooled. Two plug motoplat (Italy) magneto ignition, compression release to start. 8 x 10 cm, 8 port carbon fiber case reed valve induction via Bing 44mm magnesium gold cup carburetor. 9cm exhaust with power valve. Exhaust system. Hand made & tuned on dynamometer at Bassani exhaust system, Califonia. The wheels, the hubs I hand machined all three. Measurements from Barum spools. The rims from Sun rims AKA Buchanans wheel. ( the father made the Captain America bike on Easy Rider) lifetime local friends.
I laced the wheels myself. .120 wire. Grade and nuts ?? Kenny Buchanan handed me a big box. “ this won’t break. Don’t fly the chair”. Front wheel 3”x 21”, rear 5-1/2 x 18, side 2-1/2 x16.
Handlebars, Pro Taper USA. Controls, Magura Germany , brakes, Brembo Italy.
Shocks all Ohlins. A High School classmate is US distributor. Got sponsored….$5k worth. No clue what grade / model as all three were hand made and tech tuned trackside by factory mechanics.
Rear 16” travel, front 18”, side 14”.
About 700 lbs /317 kg , rig, rider & passenger & full of fuel ( 5 gallons at speed = 40 miles)
We clocked 136mph on flat asphalt section during a Grand Prix. Highway patrol radar reported on our transponders. A tight course, I had short gearing on. Open desert I would go up one tooth on front sprocket and down one on rear.

PigSquealer · Wednesday at 12:24 PM

PiccoloPirate said:
Might make a side car for the kids and grandkids, for the '79 XT500, if they buy a ranch/farm in the Rockies.

My best advice is to find a decent Ural 2wd in complete condition. Clean and service well.
Actually there’s a ton of buggies and reasonably safe side by side ranch type vehicles too.

mark_addy · Wednesday at 4:22 PM

PigSquealer said:
My best advice is to find a decent Ural 2wd in complete condition. Clean and service well.
Actually there’s a ton of buggies and reasonably safe side by side ranch type vehicles too.

ummmmm - I'm not sure I concur, as a Ural user 🙂 If you like getting covered in oil and you don't want to go very far, it can be fun. Ural 2WD has no diff - Dnepr MT16 from 80s (similar, but with an even more Soviet take on a BMW flat twin than a Ural, and from Kyiv not Siberia) had a diff, but these are hard to find and really quite pricey now for what they are. I think your XT suggestion might be OK, @PiccoloPirate - although I don't know much about Jap bikes so I don't know how the frame looks for working out where to put the fittings. But I've been sidecar-camping 2-up on a spine-frame MZ250 outfit which cost me less than 200 quid all-in, so I would take my recommendations with a big pinch of salt if you live in the 'real world'!

(Edit - if you make the sidecar, then scaff tube (so long as you can be arsed cleaning the galv off it - don't breath it in when you weld it), and a trailer 'indespension' (twisty-rubber-blocks-thing) unit with a trailer/car wheel on it, is the easiest and cheapest way to go. And the tyres are free-ish, which is good because you will scrub them out like nobodies business, likewise the rear on the bike. Thinking about it, if you use a trail bike with long-travel forks then an outfit will twist them around a lot and you'd probably need to make a fork brace, or leading links like Mr Squealer. I made leading links, but I probably used the last of my enthusiam doing so!)

mark_addy · Wednesday at 4:33 PM

PigSquealer said:
XT 500 isn’t big enough. I’ve had several SR 500’s. Still have one ‘79.
This sidecar frame was hand built in 1995 by EML in Netherlands. 4130 chromoly, hand gas nickel bronze brazed. Nickel plated. A “Universal “ frame kit.
The body work tank / plastics came from Acerbis Italy.
The red protective cushions I made.
The engine came from Mark Zabel in Germany. 5 speed Maico 620 case wet transmission, dry carbon fiber& titanium clutch with Zabel 720cc single two stroke aluminum topend 18:1 compression on Mahle single ring cam ground piston. 13,000-15,000 rpm. Water cooled. Two plug motoplat (Italy) magneto ignition, compression release to start. 8 x 10 cm, 8 port carbon fiber case reed valve induction via Bing 44mm magnesium gold cup carburetor. 9cm exhaust with power valve. Exhaust system. Hand made & tuned on dynamometer at Bassani exhaust system, Califonia. The wheels, the hubs I hand machined all three. Measurements from Barum spools. The rims from Sun rims AKA Buchanans wheel. ( the father made the Captain America bike on Easy Rider) lifetime local friends.
I laced the wheels myself. .120 wire. Grade and nuts ?? Kenny Buchanan handed me a big box. “ this won’t break. Don’t fly the chair”. Front wheel 3”x 21”, rear 5-1/2 x 18, side 2-1/2 x16.
Handlebars, Pro Taper USA. Controls, Magura Germany , brakes, Brembo Italy.
Shocks all Ohlins. A High School classmate is US distributor. Got sponsored….$5k worth. No clue what grade / model as all three were hand made and tech tuned trackside by factory mechanics.
Rear 16” travel, front 18”, side 14”.
About 700 lbs /317 kg , rig, rider & passenger & full of fuel ( 5 gallons at speed = 40 miles)
We clocked 136mph on flat asphalt section during a Grand Prix. Highway patrol radar reported on our transponders. A tight course, I had short gearing on. Open desert I would go up one tooth on front sprocket and down one on rear.
View attachment 37541
View attachment 37542
View attachment 37543
View attachment 37544
View attachment 37545

That colour scheme reminds me of the teenager-magazines of my 80s youth. Does one ride it in white basketball boots, white socks, and a shiny flecked suit with the sleeves rolled up? 🙂

PiccoloPirate · Thursday at 8:42 PM

Very kool build Señor Pig.
Will be bach. 🎶🏴‍☠️🎶

PiccoloPirate · Thursday at 8:46 PM

Old NYC two wheel saying:
Small wheels
Big potholes
Get launched
From your Vespa. 🤕

PiccoloPirate · Thursday at 8:51 PM

This is the bike as it was prior to cutting the back of the frame for some mods.

Back in '79, FHP Captain buddy, asked how fast I was going, when I passed him, on the Key West extension highway.
"Speedo stops at 120mph", as we both laughed.
I was working on jetting the inadequate OEM carb.

PigSquealer · Thursday at 11:09 PM

PiccoloPirate said:
This is the bike as it was prior to cutting the back of the frame for some mods.

Back in '79, FHP Captain buddy, asked how fast I was going, when I passed him, on the Key West extension highway.
"Speedo stops at 120mph", as we both laughed.
I was working on jetting the inadequate OEM carb.

View attachment 37556

Oil in frame & no electric starter…. Long & wide kick starter already limits proper frame lower mounting. Mount at steering head needs to be well thought out. Frame will crack there and cause oil leak. Bad angles everywhere and the chair will come loose on a regular basis. Especially if you use frame clamps. Welding them just destroys a frame. You’ll have cracks everywhere.
The side wheel needs to be 10”-12” in front of rear wheel measuring axel to axel. Lean in or out of bike needs to be adjustable for final test ride. However the pivots work the chair should always stay level with the ground.
Tow-in @ 1/16 at center line of front axel. Get a fork brace.

ghostler · Thursday at 11:24 PM

For these vintage bikes, above all, DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL! The following creditable website explains why:

Spagthorpe Maintenance Bulletins: Synthetic Motor Oil

History of the Legendary Spagthorpe Motorcycle Company.

cybermotorcycle.com

EXCERPT: While riding past groups of attractive women it will cause both of your handlebar grips to slip off at the same time so you smash your windscreen with the bridge of your nose. It also causes your swingarm to crack, your studs to break, and your rotors to warp, and then it voids your warranty by changing your odometer reading to 55,555. It also dries out your wetclutch and wets your dryclutch. It makes your clutch slave cylinder seal fail in the heaviest traffic on the hottest day of the year while putting an angry wasp in your helmet for good measure.

Colin the Bear · Friday at 3:03 PM

I replaced the clutch due to the wrong oil causing slippage. Lesson learned.

ghostler · Friday at 6:18 PM

Colin the Bear said:
I replaced the clutch due to the wrong oil causing slippage. Lesson learned.

Some years ago I added Lucas engine oil stabilizer in my Suzuki LS650 Savage crankcase. It is a wetting agent to keep parts lubricated until the oil pump starts circulating oil to all bearing passages.

It works because after the bike sat for several weeks nonuse (Winter), upon removing the cylinder head cover, all metallic surfaces glistened with oil. Otherwise it would look dry.

After a couple months usage (daily rider to work, out-of-town touring on weekends) my clutch started to slip in 3rd gear. I changed the oil discontinuing Lucas. After about 2 months, the clutch slippage stopped.

Didn't have to replace the clutch.

Colin the Bear · Friday at 6:46 PM

The clutch I took out had minimal wear. I still have the bike and the part worn clutch plates.

PigSquealer · 2026-10-03T01:09:00+0100

ghostler said:
For these vintage bikes, above all, DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL! The following creditable website explains why:

Spagthorpe Maintenance Bulletins: Synthetic Motor Oil

History of the Legendary Spagthorpe Motorcycle Company.

cybermotorcycle.com

EXCERPT: While riding past groups of attractive women it will cause both of your handlebar grips to slip off at the same time so you smash your windscreen with the bridge of your nose. It also causes your swingarm to crack, your studs to break, and your rotors to warp, and then it voids your warranty by changing your odometer reading to 55,555. It also dries out your wetclutch and wets your dryclutch. It makes your clutch slave cylinder seal fail in the heaviest traffic on the hottest day of the year while putting an angry wasp in your helmet for good measure.

Most all true with one exception. Synthetic oil hides 10mm sockets & spanners more the 13mm.

ghostler · 2026-10-03T01:18:54+0100

PigSquealer said:
Most all true with one exception. Synthetic oil hides 10mm sockets & spanners more the 13mm.

Must be true because I swear over the 20 years I must have bought a half dozen 10mm sockets, and still can't find the universal interchangeble tip screwdrivers. I had at least a half dozen of those too, and to include needle nose pliers of various sizes.

PigSquealer · 2026-10-03T01:21:02+0100

ghostler said:
Some years ago I added Lucas engine oil stabilizer in my Suzuki LS650 Savage crankcase. It is a wetting agent to keep parts lubricated until the oil pump starts circulating oil to all bearing passages.

It works because after the bike sat for several weeks nonuse (Winter), upon removing the cylinder head cover, all metallic surfaces glistened with oil. Otherwise it would look dry.

After a couple months usage (daily rider to work, out-of-town touring on weekends) my clutch started to slip in 3rd gear. I changed the oil discontinuing Lucas. After about 2 months, the clutch slippage stopped.

Didn't have to replace the clutch.

Colin the Bear said:
The clutch I took out had minimal wear. I still have the bike and the part worn clutch plates.

Always stay with the manufacturers recommendations oil lubricants. Especially on wet clutches. The friction discs can be made from organic, organic bimetallic, ceramic, bronze or Kevlar materials.

ghostler · 2026-10-03T03:39:28+0100

PigSquealer said:
Always stay with the manufacturers recommendations oil lubricants. Especially on wet clutches. The friction discs can be made from organic, organic bimetallic, ceramic, bronze or Kevlar materials.

Mine was a 1987 model. Owners manual recommended API SF or SG oil. These oils were no longer available, so I used later classifications. Those could possibly be problemmatic as I have heard that latest "Dino Oils" contain some synth content.

to the valve train components on the Savage engine has a very long reach to travel. I was looking for a way to minimise valve train wear by reducing dry wear during starts until oil reached bearing surfaces. Various forums discussed use of the Lucas oil additive product with varying successes.

Was discussing this on the then available Savage forums, which are no longer in existence.

My experiment wasn't a failure. It showed in my case that this product's use wasn't suited for my Savage. No harm was done. I rode the bike considerably after until I upgraded to a 2001 Kawasaki ZG1200 Voyager XII tourer in 2014.

Been using Rotella diesel engine oil in the Voyager motor, well accepted in the Voyager Forum due to engine characteristics running hot, although not recommended by the manufacturer. Heard the same in Subaru forums. My son used to drive a Subaru.

There are some exceptions to manufacturer's recommendations, which does not mean they are wrong. We are talking about vehicles no longer under warranty. YMMV.

PigSquealer · 2026-10-03T05:45:16+0100

ghostler said:
Mine was a 1987 model. Owners manual recommended API SF or SG oil. These oils were no longer available, so I used later classifications. Those could possibly be problemmatic as I have heard that latest "Dino Oils" contain some synth content.

to the valve train components on the Savage engine has a very long reach to travel. I was looking for a way to minimise valve train wear by reducing dry wear during starts until oil reached bearing surfaces. Various forums discussed use of the Lucas oil additive product with varying successes.

Was discussing this on the then available Savage forums, which are no longer in existence.

My experiment wasn't a failure. It showed in my case that this product's use wasn't suited for my Savage. No harm was done. I rode the bike considerably after until I upgraded to a 2001 Kawasaki ZG1200 Voyager XII tourer in 2014.

Been using Rotella diesel engine oil in the Voyager motor, well accepted in the Voyager Forum due to engine characteristics running hot, although not recommended by the manufacturer. Heard the same in Subaru forums. My son used to drive a Subaru.

There are some exceptions to manufacturer's recommendations, which does not mean they are wrong. We are talking about vehicles no longer under warranty. YMMV.

IMHO you understudied. I’ve spent a lifetime working on pre 1970 cars & motorcycles. ANY product I consider I contact the manufacturer directly and ask questions.
Vintage car care protection is not to be taken lightly. This subject, ongoing since 1985.
I have fuel & oil additives on hand for car customers. Have since 1995. And kept current with tech needs over the years, fuel changes included.
Ask opinions on a site blog, Pffff. Yeah, you did well…..

Forest Lucas is a personal friend and sponsor at one time. His son Morgan attended school with my niece and they dated for years until his head got fat driving Top Fuel cars. They know metal and oil needs.
I just suggested Lucas products to @Greychatter FWIW
I use several Lucas products.

1987 SAE, API-SE,SF,SG,CD required oils were available for years. I think the requirement is either 10 or 20 years after manufacture dated that OE specifications supplies are to be available. Hard parts & safety parts it’s 20 years.

PiccoloPirate · 2026-10-03T19:42:11+0100

As stated, best to use what the manufacturer recommends lubrication wise, and call them if they are still in business if product is no longer available.
Also, best to only use their high quality tools. 😜
From one of my Ducati bikes, maybe the 350 Sebring, bought new when they first arrived at Ghost, early '66?