New Year's Resolution - Grade 5 Theory

nigeld

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I think you should definitely write B# rather than C natural, since this is the leading note in the key of C#.

For the D, I would have thought that both C## and D natural are OK, but I could accept an argument that in a sharp key you should get the in-between notes by sharpening the note underneath rather than flattening the one above.

Imagine a 5-note chromatic scale starting on C
We could write it as C, C#, D, D#, E or we could write C, Db, D, Eb, E
The first would feel more right to me in a sharp key and the second in a flat key.
 

Young Col

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J, That looks like the third one in exercise three on chromatics.
It should be B# to show it as the sharpened 7th (whether you are using melodic or harmonic), not C natural. I don't understand why they would show xC followed by D. The D is # anyway, so they are the same. As it's a chromatic scale, what you wrote, C#, D nat, D#, E. is correct.
 

Jeanette

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J, That looks like the third one in exercise three on chromatics.
Yes :)
It should be B# to show it as the sharpened 7th (whether you are using melodic or harmonic), not C natura
Thanks yes I understand now to relate to the scale I was just concentrating on the chromatics.
Sorry, on second thoughts, xC would work as D of course, followed by D#. but there's no need, as D nat is OK and that's what I have in my workbook (and marked correct by my teacher at the time!)
thanks

Jx
 

Jeanette

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I didn't do so well on the next one either. I think I understand where I went wrong but @Young Col would you mind checking for me the Eb in my answer book has the "b" notated but I don't think this is necessary as it is in the key sig how did you notate it?

Thanks

Jx
 

Young Col

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Things I do for people... I'd taken the books back upstairs and put them back in their box, but fortunately I'd just poured a pre-prandial Gin Mare and Fevertree Mediterranean, so I feel fortified! Do you mean the preceding one in Eb descending in bass clef starting on the supertonic*? Or have they changed the workbook since I did it?

* I thought Fevertree Mediterranean was a supertonic.
 

Jeanette

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Things I do for people... I'd taken the books back upstairs and put them back in their box
Oh no, but the exercise will have been good for you :) Sorry and Thank you

This the starting on sub-dom of Ab maj descending

I thought Fevertree Mediterranean was a supertonic.
I agree and next time we meet I will buy you one with a gin in it :cheers:

Jx

PS start looking for your grade 5 books :)
 

Jeanette

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Right now I'm getting confused, why in the key of B minor would they do what I did in my first post and use B Cnat #C in the ascending chromatic scale?

Jx
 

Young Col

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Actually of course, it's no problem at all. I find myself amazed that I'm helping someone else with theory!
Right, it's the Eb in the Ab major.
It's because its a chromatic scale and the E descending after the F is only a semitone step, so has to be shown as natural. The E after it, a semitone lower, has thus to be shown as Eb, even though it is in the key sig. (otherwise it would still be natural). The same happens in the following D, which is natural as it's chromatic, then the final D minim in the next bar has to be shown as Db. You can think of it as a corrective action to show that the D is actually flattened as it should be.
 

Jeanette

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It's because its a chromatic scale and the E descending after the F is only a semitone step, so has to be shown as natural. The E after it, a semitone lower, has thus to be shown as Eb, even though it is in the key sig. (otherwise it would still be natural). The same happens in the following D, which is natural as it's chromatic, then the final D minim in the next bar has to be shown as Db. You can think of it as a corrective action to show that the D is actually flattened as it should be.
See below, the answer has F Fb and Eb so I assumed as the E is flat from the key sig it doesn't need an accidental? Sorry Col it's hard when you can't see what I have.

Jx
img088a.jpg
 

Young Col

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Right now I'm getting confused, why in the key of B minor would they do what I did in my first post and use B Cnat #C in the ascending chromatic scale?

Jx
I don't know. I don't have the answer book, but in my workbook I have B nat, B#, C# which is marked as correct. Perhaps you can use either, although my preference would be for B# as it's a rising scale and the C# is clearly define d n the key signature .

The Grade 5 book is to hand!
 

Young Col

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Oh I see. The answer book looks odd to me. I don't see why they've put the b sign before the E when they've used Fb. For that answer I used - D(b), C, Bnat, Bb, Anat, Ab,G,Gb,F,Enat, Eb, Dnat, Db.
I haven't used Cb or Bbb. That looks cumbersome. Again, my teacher marked mine as correct - and she was very precise (and she didn't use the answer book for reference either). Perhaps both are acceptable.
 

Jeanette

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Oh I see. The answer book looks odd to me. I don't see why they've put the b sign before the E when they've used Fb. For that answer I used - D(b), C, Bnat, Bb, Anat, Ab,G,Gb,F,Enat, Eb, Dnat, Db.
I haven't used Cb or Bbb. That looks cumbersome. Again, my teacher marked mine as correct - and she was very precise (and she didn't use the answer book for reference either). Perhaps both are acceptable.
Thanks Col, you have restored my confidence. Possible there is more than one answer :)

Jx
 
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I think you should definitely write B# rather than C natural, since this is the leading note in the key of C#.

For the D, I would have thought that both C## and D natural are OK, but I could accept an argument that in a sharp key you should get the in-between notes by sharpening the note underneath rather than flattening the one above.

Imagine a 5-note chromatic scale starting on C
We could write it as C, C#, D, D#, E or we could write C, Db, D, Eb, E
The first would feel more right to me in a sharp key and the second in a flat key.
I was taught to write chromatic scales using sharps ascending and flats descending. I've also come across a rule that says the tonic and dominant should not be modified in chromatic passages. e.g. In E major don't write Eb, E# Bb or B#.

The "Exercise 3" answers Jeanette posted don't seem to follow either rule consistently. I've no idea what they are expecting.
 
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Jeanette

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I was taught to write chromatic scales using sharps ascending and flats descending. I've also come across a rule that says the tonic and dominant should not be modified in chromatic passages. e.g. In E major don't write Eb, E# Bb or B#.

The "Exercise 3" answers Jeanette posted don't seem to follow either rule consistently. I've no idea what they are expecting.
No I'm not sure either, I suspect this is where trying to learn yourself falls down, I'd go back to school for it but I can't find anywhere to have lessons in theory....

Still the aim was to learn more about music theory and I do feel I'm achieving that to a degree but I suspect there will still be gaps in my knowledge and understanding

Jx
 
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