Tech/maintenance Needle spring removal

[Freddie]

Before I go blundering into the workings of my horn.
Is there a technique for removing the spring from the post, please?

 

[skeller047]

First, why are you removing springs? If they are broken or rusty, no issue, but for general repairs there is no need.

The answer to your question is yes. Grip the spring with pliers about 1/8” (3mm) from the post, and tap the pliers with a mallet to start the spring backing out. Then pull it out - you may need the pliers for that. If the spring is broken off at the post, you need a specialty tool - spring removing pliers.

Putting back in (or a new one) you can use spring pliers. These have a slot in one of the beak sides so you can push the spring straight in. Or just regular flat jaw pliers with one side offset against the post.

Music Medic and Ferree’s both sell broken spring removing pliers and spring installing pliers. They are expensive, so unless you are going into business as a tech, may not be worth it.

 

[PigSquealer]

Before I go blundering into the workings of my horn.
Is there a technique for removing the spring from the post, please?

Why do you need to remove a spring ?
Look on Music Medic’s YouTube channel.
There’s a. Technic to grab the spring with pliers. Then with another pair of pliers to press out with post on one side and pliers on the other holding the spring. This keeps this post from being knocked out of place.

 

[Freddie]

First, why are you removing springs? If they are broken or rusty, no issue, but for general repairs there is no need.

The answer to your question is yes. Grip the spring with pliers about 1/8” (3mm) from the post, and tap the pliers with a mallet to start the spring backing out. Then pull it out - you may need the pliers for that. If the spring is broken off at the post, you need a specialty tool - spring removing pliers.

Putting back in (or a new one) you can use spring pliers. These have a slot in one of the beak sides so you can push the spring straight in. Or just regular flat jaw pliers with one side offset against the post.

Music Medic and Ferree’s both sell broken spring removing pliers and spring installing pliers. They are expensive, so unless you are going into business as a tech, may not be worth it.

Broken.
I live in the tropics. Salty air with high humidity. So with no technicians within a long haul flight, it’s something I need to be able to do for myself.
Thanks for the quick answer. I could see anything like a grub screw, but thought I’d ask first.

 

[Freddie]

Why do you need to remove a spring ?
Look on Music Medic’s YouTube channel.
There’s a. Technic to grab the spring with pliers. Then with another pair of pliers to press out with post on one side and pliers on the other holding the spring. This keeps this post from being knocked out of place.

Broken.
Thanks, I’ll look it up.

 

[Freddie]

Why do you need to remove a spring ?
Look on Music Medic’s YouTube channel.
There’s a. Technic to grab the spring with pliers. Then with another pair of pliers to press out with post on one side and pliers on the other holding the spring. This keeps this post from being knocked out of place.

Broken.
Thanks, I’ll look it up

 

[Colin the Bear]

Spring removal pliers make removing a broken spring simple.

Before you go hitting anything with hammers, remember it's a flimsy brass tube with components held on with aged solder.

Dents and bends are easily made. Components are easily knocked off.

Squeeze if you can. Only hit if you have no alternative and then gently.

 

[Freddie]

First, why are you removing springs? If they are broken or rusty, no issue, but for general repairs there is no need.

The answer to your question is yes. Grip the spring with pliers about 1/8” (3mm) from the post, and tap the pliers with a mallet to start the spring backing out. Then pull it out - you may need the pliers for that. If the spring is broken off at the post, you need a specialty tool - spring removing pliers.

Putting back in (or a new one) you can use spring pliers. These have a slot in one of the beak sides so you can push the spring straight in. Or just regular flat jaw pliers with one side offset against the post.

Music Medic and Ferree’s both sell broken spring removing pliers and spring installing pliers. They are expensive, so unless you are going into business as a tech, may not be worth it.

Spring removal pliers make removing a broken spring simple.

Before you go hitting anything with hammers, remember it's a flimsy brass tube with components held on with aged solder.

Dents and bends are easily made. Components are easily knocked off.

Squeeze if you can. Only hit if you have no alternative and then gently.

Yea thanks. No movement with normal pliers & using the post as a fulcrum.

No hitting or hammers of any kind!

I’ll order some spring pliers from Music medic as has been suggested.

Whilst I’m waiting the weeks it’ll take to arrive, I’ll sacrifice some pliers & make some!

 

[turf3]

Broken springs are usually broken right off at the post. For that, spring removal pliers are the simple solution.

If there's some of the spring still sticking out, you can lightly tap on the end and start it that way. LIGHTLY is the watchword. It shouldn't take much work at all to drive it out backwards. Or you can cut a notch in one jaw of a small set of pliers to receive the butt end of the spring.

If there's nothing sticking out, you can use another spring's big end (or grind the point off a needle) and use as a drift. Again, LIGHTLY is the watchword here.

 

[Freddie]

Broken springs are usually broken right off at the post. For that, spring removal pliers are the simple solution.

If there's some of the spring still sticking out, you can lightly tap on the end and start it that way. LIGHTLY is the watchword. It shouldn't take much work at all to drive it out backwards. Or you can cut a notch in one jaw of a small set of pliers to receive the butt end of the spring.

If there's nothing sticking out, you can use another spring's big end (or grind the point off a needle) and use as a drift. Again, LIGHTLY is the watchword here.

Thanks, it’s broken with about an 1/8” exposed. Just enough to encourage one to try.
It’s pretty soft material so I’m loath to hit, tap or anything concussive unless I need to.
The horn is an antique, so I’m gonna wait till I get the correct tool.
Currently Eb on a hair band!

Big thanks to everyone for the suggestions.

 

[turf3]

Yeah, that's a situation where the small pliers with one slotted jaw will work. I believe the Music Medic spring pliers offer that possibility. I own a pair but haven't used them in several years.

 

[PigSquealer]

Currently Eb on a hair band!

Is your sax silver plated ? Don’t leave a rubber band in contact with silver. It will leave a permanent black scar.

If you have an inexpensive pair of sacrificial pliers. You can make a tip like this to extract what’s there.

 

[Freddie]

Is your sax silver plated ? Don’t leave a rubber band in contact with silver. It will leave a permanent black scar.

If you have an inexpensive pair of sacrificial pliers. You can make a tip like this to extract what’s there.
View attachment 28250

Not silver plated, The bands are cloth covered hair bands & worked a treat.
Pliers: drilled & tapped, just need to grind a point onto the machine screw & case harden it.

 

[Vetinari]

Never touch the brass parts with steel faced pliers. Brass faced are available. Some jobs also need parallel jaws. Amazon sell both including brass faced with parallel jaws. Other stores are available.

 

[Ivan]

I’m loath to hit, tap or anything concussive...

I thought you were engaged in sax repair

Not boxing

 

[turf3]

Not silver plated, The bands are cloth covered hair bands & worked a treat.
Pliers: drilled & tapped, just need to grind a point onto the machine screw & case harden it.

You indicated the broken spring still protrudes from the post. In this case it'll be pretty much impossible to get a pointy driver to line up with the pointy piece of the remaining spring. You 'll need to use pliers like what PS posted above, one flat jaw and one slotted.

 

[Freddie]

Never touch the brass parts with steel faced pliers. Brass faced are available. Some jobs also need parallel jaws. Amazon sell both including brass faced with parallel jaws. Other stores are available.

Thanks. Unfortunately Amazon don’t deliver to the southern Caribbean, yet.
Ordered some from Music Medic, tho’ the parallel spring ones are out of stock.
I can wait. The hair bands are working nicely.

I thought you were engaged in sax repair

Not boxing

well, someone bit 😁👍🏻

You indicated the broken spring still protrudes from the post. In this case it'll be pretty much impossible to get a pointy driver to line up with the pointy piece of the remaining spring. You 'll need to use pliers like what PS posted above, one flat jaw and one slotted.

Would I not be able to use the hole in the other side of the post for the point pliers to get it moving.
I have some very good mole grips that I’ve used on it & I’m not happy with putting any more pressure or twist into the post or body.
I may have to use some phosphoruic acid to help remove some rust before I attempt any more.

 

[turf3]

Thanks. Unfortunately Amazon don’t deliver to the southern Caribbean, yet.
Ordered some from Music Medic, tho’ the parallel spring ones are out of stock.
I can wait. The hair bands are working nicely.

well, someone bit 😁👍🏻

Would I not be able to use the hole in the other side of the post for the point pliers to get it moving.
I have some very good mole grips that I’ve used on it & I’m not happy with putting any more pressure or twist into the post or body.
I may have to use some phosphoruic acid to help remove some rust before I attempt any more.

Nope. The way the spring is retained in the post is that the butt end is flattened, giving it a taper, and then it's pushed into the hole in the post, pointy end first, and the taper is what holds it in the post. You remove it by taking it out the other direction. If you try to push it out in the direction it's installed, you'll either fail, or you'll succeed by ruining the hole from driving that hard steel taper through the soft brass. It HAS to come out in the OPPOSITE direction from the installation direction, in other words from the direction where the (now broken off) pointy end was.

Do NOT get phosphoric acid involved. If the thing's rusted in, what you need is penetrating oil.

But it's pretty likely that all you'll need is the pliers Pig S. pictured above, pushing the remaining bit out between the prongs of the slotted jaw. Once you get that taper started, it should pretty much fall out.

 

[PigSquealer]

I may have to use some phosphoruic acid to help remove some rust before I attempt any more.

Gently heat and apply some paraffin wax. Heat again and press.
Keep a wet cloth at body/ post.

 

[PigSquealer]

Turf is 1000% correct !!! You need to press out the opposite direction. The ends are hammered to produce a dovetail wedge fit.