Oiling needle springs?

DavidUK

Well-Known Member
Café Supporter
Having completely stripped my newly acquired but 9 year old Yani A901, I noticed some of the blued needle springs have some surface rust here and there.

This rough surface, and even that of a new blued spring, must create a little friction against the key arm or rod surely? Upon reassembly I plan to lightly coat the needle springs with Ballistol gun oil. This is fantastic at protecting bluing from rust and lubricates too.

The lubrication will have a tiny effect on speed and playability but every little helps.

Does anybody else bother to lubricate these metal on metal spring to key areas I wonder?
 
I like your idea of the oil protecting the spring from the effects of moisture. My only concern would be using too much oil and getting the excess on the body to collect dirt and lint. As far as the friction at that spot where the point of the spring contacts the spring cradle, it is so miniscule relative to the rest of the mechanics of the key that I don't think the effect of adding a tiny drop of oil would be measurable or perceptible.

On some vintage saxes where there is not a "modern" spring cradle but simply a "hook" in which to connect the spring, the hook can sometimes pinch the spring and actually result in a binding that is felt when the key is operated. As a matter of course when I am restoring vintage saxophones, I always polish the insides of spring hooks or cradles with a piece of strong cord containing a bit of tripoli.
 
This rough surface, and even that of a new blued spring, must create a little friction against the key arm or rod surely
You might argue that friction would rub off the rust atoms so movement is actually keeping any critical moving parts spotless
 
When using ballistol on my blued guns I apply it and then wipe it off so there's just the lightest film. That's what I've done this evening, recognising the "sticky" effect it may have for dust and fluff.

I managed to assemble the Yani tonight with just one minor back track involving unscrewing a pivot screw again, so I'm quite chuffed. I noticed it's missing one of the two small white felt pads under the G# touch piece, and one of the tiny cylindrical corks in one of the screws of the F#/G# adjustment arm. I can make the latter, but where can I get one of the tiny white felt pads from? Dawkes maybe, or Connollys/Paul Carrington might have them?

Although these may have been lost due to my cleaning efforts knocking them asunder, it's not a bad thing to dislodge these now as they probably would have disappeared at some less convenient point. I did notice one of the black plastic key end protectors dropping to the floor thanks to Merlin the cat's quick reactions in chasing it. Got it off him!

Apart from these two remaining parts to replace, I need to lightly oil the mechanism (I have some Selmer key oil) using a needle as a "dropper" and then we're done, assuming it still plays!
 
Most techs buy sheet felt in the appropriate color and then using the correct size leather punch, make their own "dots". Leather companies generally carry handy sets of punches that cover all of the common sizes needed.
 
Bought some thin white sheet felt this morning in the local craft shop.

99p for a lifetime's usage! Thanks JBT.

Oh... and for the tiny cylindrical cork, should I cut a length square and try sanding it round in a dremel chuck, or will it disintegrate!?
 
I use one of the smaller punches to cut the cork inserts out of a thick piece of "tech cork". Another idea is to find a rubber "O" ring with the proper diameter and cut a small segment out to make the cylindrical bumper. A technique techs often use is to put a "dome" on the head of the cork/rubber by spinning the adjusting screw in a bench motor and sanding the end with an emery board. A "poor man's" bench motor which works quite well can be an electric drill in a vice.
 
Here's the finished felt "dot", hand cut with curved scissors from my wife's manicure set...

410430489.jpg



And here's the new cork with rounded end, done by hand in the end (2nd from left)...

410430491.jpg



However, I have a problem - Re-fitting this adjuster I noticed the adjustment bar hovering over the right hand side of the key cup to the right of the above photo.

See the next post for a close up of the adjustment bar, and the issue...
 
This one...

410430490.jpg


What should be glued to the underside of this adjuster, felt or cork, and what is its purpose and method of adjustment? JBT perhaps you can help here?

There's always one more thing to do!

:rolleyes:
 
What you have there is an "F# helper bar" that extends from the F key. What this is intended to do is to provide a back up mechanism to insure the F key closes the F# key if the foot of the F key pushing up the "backbar" of the F# fails to do so. I am not a fan of this mechanism because if a saxophone has well fitted keys, an independent adjusting arm that is attached to the F# hinge tube rather than coming from the F#, and good regulation it is entirely unnecessary and just "overkill" IMO.

If you want to use it, a felt circle will work fine. Make sure when it is adjusted that it still allows the F key to close completely. If you choose to ignore it, that would work too.

By the way, nice job of rounding the cork you installed. Why not do the other one too while you're at it?
 
Thanks JBT. :thumb: Understood.

I guess the helper arm would have had felt on it originally so I'll cut and glue another "dot", then adjust.

Yes, the other cork does now look odd. I'll whip it out and round it off.
 
Helper arm felt fitted on Saturday. Adjustment easy to work out from interaction with other keys. Yani then oiled and test played and it works perfectly!

Actually does feel more nimble under the fingers than before the strip and clean. Well, I guess it should do as a surface covering of grot also means it would have found its way into the key and rod unions, causing real friction issues. I'll bear this in mind for the future as I do tend to keep the accessible outer surfaces clean and dust free but haven't really though about the minute debris collecting in the mechanism.

Hmmm... might strip down and clean the Yam 62 over Christmas now I'm playing it more. Not that it's dirty, but it is 25 years old and I've no idea when last serviced.
 
Congratulations. Doing your own "clean, oil, and adjust" is an excellent way to get comfortable with the mechanics of your instrument. I like to use cotton pipe cleaners (Dills) with a drop of thin brass valve oil to clean inside the hinge tubes. A soft cloth with a bit of valve oil does a good job of cleaning the rods.

I really like the Music Medic Ultimax synthetic key oil and Ultimax pivot grease. A good way to oil a key after it has been cleaned is to put a drop or two of oil inside the hinge tube end that the rod will go into. Once the key(s) are installed, any oil that comes out the end of the tube can be wiped up using a Q-tip.

For the body of the sax once the keys are removed I like to use a bit of Lemon Pledge furniture polish on a cloth or Q-tip to clean and polish the lacquered surface. For regular cleaning and maintenance it helps to vacuum the inside of the case regularly, and to use a paintbrush with long soft bristles to dislodge material that collects under the keys. Once it is loosened, a good blast of compressed air does a good job of removing it completely.
 
The cleaning paid off... Advertised yesterday, a buyer arrived tonight and bought the Yani.
He had considered the Yam 62 too so I played him both and there was less sound difference than I remembered when I chose the Yam as my favourite. A secret Christmas present for his 11 year old daughter doing her grade 5 on a school Jupiter. The Yani was favoured as she has a classical leaning at present.
She'll be a happy bunny!
 

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