Mouthpieces My little mouthpiece revelation

Linky Lee · Feb 14, 2008

There seems to be a lot going on with mouthpieces at the moment on this forum.

My teacher suggested I should use some harder reeds or get a wider mouthpiece to play on as my chops are capable enough for it and it will give me a 'bigger' and 'fuller' sound. - This started the old mouthpiece craze again.

I've only got 3 pieces for alto at the moment. A Yamaha 4C, a Yanagisawa 6 and an Otto Link 6. All ebonite, I can't stand metal on alto and don't really like it on tenor either.

I didn't really bother much with the Yamaha, I grew out of that a while back and am including it with the sale of the Hanson.
I did give the Yanagisawa and the Link a decent blow and a bit of a comparison though.

What I found was that the Otto Link was incredibly hard to blow in comparison to the Yanigasawa. A bit of web research told me it's got a slightly larger tip opening, but not so much so for this amount of difference.
I then put a reed on both and marked where the mouthpiece started bending away from the reed. The Yanagisawa seemed about right but when I did it on the Otto Link it was a good 1cm shorter than the Yanagisawa! No wonder it was a hard blow!

After I found this out it all made much more sense and I decided to try a rico 3 reed instead of my usual ZZ 2.5s It was a harder blow but there was definitely some more 'roundness' and 'core' to the sound. I like my ZZs though and the 2.5s especially so I decided to go down the route of a re-facing.

There isn't a huge amount of material to work with on the tip so the maximum I could go to is an 8. What I think I'm going to do is reface the Yanagisawa to a 7* and see what that's like. If that works well then I'll get the link opened up to a 7 but I'll also get the lay lengthened.

Do you find that after a mouthpiece has been refaced it responds better? As I find the Link quite stuffy above the palm keys. It has a great sound and would be my mouthpiece of choice if it wasn't as stuffy. Because of this the Yanagisawa is better because it responds really nicely all over the range, but the tone is thinner and brighter, not overly though.

Pete Thomas · Feb 14, 2008

Although I use a very wide tip on tenor (125) I have never got on with wide tips on alto, and have heard others say the same. 6 is ideal for me.

Refacing can be worth doing for reasons other than to make the opening wider, but only if the refacer can make it play better for not worse.

And before you ask...I don't know 😉

jools · Feb 14, 2008

OOh yes Lee, if you 'dare' to mess with your kit, you can't do better than have a 'mod-job. Have to agree with Pete tho - not on alto. I had Freddy Gregory work up one of my old Brilharts to an 8 or possibly 9 (sounded SO much better) and I used to have an Otto Link (bell metal) that must have been ground back to about 10 or more! - what a beast that was. Mind you, I'd have it done professionally though. Don't go taking a steel rasp to your toys.. 😉

Pete Thomas · Feb 14, 2008

I tell who is good. Bill Wrathall and Ed Pillinger. I got Ed to put a Meyer (6) facing onto a Selmer Soloist C*. It's now a Meylmer.

Bobby G · Feb 14, 2008

I find the Link a little stuffy at the top end (Tone Edge, that is) and noticeably quieter than other mouthpieces. I have a 5 and a 6*, and both have a good core sound apart from the top-end stuffiness. The implication being that opening up a narrower tip opening could result in pretty much the same sound but with a bit more volume.

What is very noticeable is moving up a reed strength, once you've got used to it the tone is fuller and will go louder. Having said that, I've moved 'backwards' onto Supe ial 2 or 2.5 from the RJS 3S I was using a while ago.

I'm using mostly a Meyer 8 on alto now, I don't know the exact size of the opening but it's certainly not too wide for me with the Superial 2's which as we all know now are only equivalent to about a 1 to 1.5 anyway. Apparently.

Isn't Bill Wrathall 'the man' at Michael White's in the Ealing/Acton area?

jonf · Feb 15, 2008

Pete Thomas wrote:
Although I use a very wide tip on tenor (125) I have never got on with wide tips on alto, and have heard others say the same. 6 is ideal for me.

Me too. Old Otto STM 10 on tenor, Yanagisawa metal 6 on alto.

tengu01 · Feb 15, 2008

JonF wrote:

Pete Thomas wrote:
Although I use a very wide tip on tenor (125) I have never got on with wide tips on alto, and have heard others say the same. 6 is ideal for me.

Read more…

Me too. Old Otto STM 10 on tenor, Yanagisawa metal 6 on alto.

Agree. I don't need as wide a tip on the alto. I tried an otto link 8* on alto and just couldn't get along with it. Felt like I was blowing into a wind-tunnel and even the softest reeds didn't get me where I needed to be. Couldn't tame the beast.

Tenor: 8*B Lawton or 8E Morgan Excalibur. No problems at all. Anything smaller feels like I can't get enough air through the horn.

Saxlicker · Feb 15, 2008

Bobby G wrote:
II'm using mostly a Meyer 8 on alto now, I don't know the exact size of the opening but it's certainly not too wide for me with the Superial 2's which as we all know now are only equivalent to about a 1 to 1.5 anyway. Apparently.

0.86"

Bobby G · Feb 15, 2008

Thanks for that 0.86, Saxlicker. I don't know if that's particularly wide (apparently a 7 is the most popular Meyer) but it's very close to my Selmer F and very comfortable to play.

My tenor tip must be proportionally wider, it's a Vandoren Jumbo Java T75 which I think is pretty darn wide but still a pretty easy blow.

Mentioning proportional tip widths, I wonder if the difference in width between alto and tenor that most people seem to prefer, when measured proportionally i.e. the ratio of tip opening to reed width is actually closer than you might think.

Saxlicker · Feb 15, 2008

Well for me,

I like 0.81" to 0.90" on alto (Ideally 0.86")
.110" to .116" on tenor (Ideally 0.114")

So the min difference is a 0.20" step
max difference is a 0.35" step

The difference using the ideals works out at 0.28"

Yes, I'm afraid I have measured these things repeatedly :blush:

But any where in those ranges works for me with out needing to split the hairs that I have just posted.

You gotta beleive me Doc!...you gotta!

ed_svoboda · Feb 16, 2008

I generally find that most mouthpieces could use a little tweak to get them just right. Machine made pieces normally have some common issues such as a table that isn't flat, a too short or too long lay, or a poor facing curve.

Thankfully this is work I can do for myself (after lots of practice and time and effort through the years).

This is the main reason I generally suggest that most players play as many pieces as they can so that they can find the "good one". I also tell players to look at pieces that are hand finished by high quality makers - in the U.S. the best pieces in this regard have been from Ralph Morgan. Ralph's guys are still doing high quality work under his brand so that suggestion still stands.

tengu01 · Feb 16, 2008

ed svoboda wrote:
- in the U.S. the best pieces in this regard have been from Ralph Morgan. Ralph's guys are still doing high quality work under his brand so that suggestion still stands.

Agreed. I have 2 Morgan Excaliburs, one tenor 8E and one alto 7EL. I understand why people pay loads of money for refacing or handmade pieces