Teaching My first student - need advice

[james8383]

There’s 48 scales there before you add pentatonics. You don’t specify which pentatonic so you may as well add them all 😳
And with tonguing and vibrato etc. Most students can’t tongue properly after two years and largely they don’t play with vibrato either.

He just wants to play songs, and pop music needs vibrato - it is what I mean. Thanks for your very detailed advices but I don't think he will need that level of detailing - just something he knows and motivate him to practice (currently learning C major).

 

[Pete Effamy]

He just wants to play songs

Exactly, choose a few songs in simple keys and talk about technique on a “need to” basis - don’t throw lots of scales and exercises at him.

 

[mizmar]

Adult learners want fast results

As an adult learner... Not always. It's individual. It's important to understand a persons Initial motivation and, indeed, agree objectives... Which are sure to change over time.

Course book is good and very basic but adults tend to learn by themselves if they know the book title.

My point about a course book is to structure your curriculum as much as anything... "All 12 keys" seems like an odd initial curriculum for someone with "no background" or "just wants to play pop songs".

But, if, in this case, chappy can learn by himself, why not? If he wants a teacher, knowing the name of a book changes nothing.

 

[Dr G]

Sipping from a firehose...

You, @james8383 need to set realistic goals, else you and the student are doomed to fail.

I suggest you find some MUSIC that you and your student can play together. Find some simple duets, then use those as a platform to teach dynamics, phrasing, and tone. Teach MUSIC. As you progress through simple duets, seek out different time signatures and keys and build incrementally.

Be sure to include the skill of critical listening else it is really difficult to make improvements in tone, intonation, and time.

 

[james8383]

Sipping from a firehose...

You, @james8383 need to set realistic goals, else you and the student are doomed to fail.

I suggest you find some MUSIC that you and your student can play together. Find some simple duets, then use those as a platform to teach dynamics, phrasing, and tone. Teach MUSIC. As you progress through simple duets, seek out different time signatures and keys and build incrementally.

Be sure to include the skill of critical listening else it is really difficult to make improvements in tone, intonation, and time.

Thank you Sir. I do appreciate your valuable advices!!!

 

[skeller047]

It’s been a long time since I taught students, but I found that having 3 or 4 areas to cover each lesson was helpful.

* Tone production - embouchure, breathing, intonation, possibly dynamics. This is done with long tones, though today I would emphasize playing with a drone tone.
* Technique - scales, arpeggios, tonguing, legato.
* Repertoire - work on a specific tune or composition or etude.
* Improvisation - ways to deal with improvising on the current tune, usually one or two specific approaches like using a pentatonic, or a certain pattern.

The improv area was for jazz students, clarinet kids didn’t get that part. The last two areas often included a listening component, especially for jazz. Focus on feel and specific performance techniques, like articulation, scoops,etc.

I always played along, even on the scale and long tone parts. I would listen to the student play alone, then demonstrate how I did it, then we would play together, then the student alone again. In jazz tunes we would play the head together, and if the student could improvise, trade 4s. I comped badly on piano, nowadays I would use a backing track.

I think twice a week is fine, especially for the first 6 months. After that, once a week is best. Regarding the fee, I would find out what the going rate is for your area and charge this guy 1/2. He is paying for your experience, and you are giving him a discount because this is a new area for you.

 

[mizmar]

Yes, I want to learn teaching,

This is quite good

The Science and Art of Saxophone Teaching by Ray Smith, published by Outskirts Press

The Science and Art of Saxophone Teaching will become a standard resource for saxophone teachers the world over. Perhaps no other book has brought so many practical ideas and approaches for the saxophonist and the pedagogue under one cover. This book can be equally valuable for the serious...

outskirtspress.com

Though I haven't read all off it

 

[thomsax]

Twice a week seems excessive.

Why? When I study pedagogy and methodology at the university (former teacher) an early repetition was the key to faster/effective learning. I would say it's even more important when it comes to adult students. Nowadays I'm a slow learner. My "hard disc" is full. Hard to remember what I did yesterday. What I did last week ....... ?? And time is tight as well. If I'm going to learn new stuff I can't wait too long for the results. I'm 68 ... but still slowly learning.

 

[Pete Effamy]

An important part of teaching is being able to feel their state of mind at any point.

Their words will often belie their actual thoughts and this has to be recognised so that their zest for learning doesn’t wane.

They may have set themselves goals but these might not be at all realistic and it’s the job of the teacher to see ahead in their learning and change their own “curriculum” to better suit them.

This may have to be managed gently too. Students will tend to have no idea just how long things take. And if something doesn’t come in a reasonable amount of time you have to move on and tackle it a different way or come back to it.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Why? When I study pedagogy and methodology at the university (former teacher) an early repetition was the key to faster/effective learning. I would say it's even more important when it comes to adult students. Nowadays I'm a slow learner. My "hard disc" is full. Hard to remember what I did yesterday. What I did last week ....... ?? And time is tight as well. If I'm going to learn new stuff I can't wait too long for the results. I'm 68 ... but still slowly learning.

Because it depends on how much practice they do. It’s highly likely that no practice might have taken place between lessons otherwise.
I only ever had one student that practiced so much that I had to absolutely pile stuff up for him each week. He used to get up an hour early so that he could practice scales before school. No surprise that he ended up in the National Youth Orch.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Why? When I study pedagogy and methodology at the university (former teacher) an early repetition was the key to faster/effective learning.

I think repetition is very useful, but something the student can/should do at home. Doing it in a lesson seems to me to be waste of the teacher time.

I believe part of teaching should be to teach the student how to learn and develop by themselves, and not need to rely on lessons. Especially for a motivated adult student.

Plus what Pete said above. In a half or one hour lesson you can give the student something that should take more than two or three days to learn properly via their practice.

 

[thomsax]

Because it depends on how much practice they do. It’s highly likely that no practice might have taken place between lessons otherwise.
I only ever had one student that practiced so much that I had to absolutely pile stuff up for him each week. He used to get up an hour early so that he could practice scales before school. No surprise that he ended up in the National Youth Orch.

An early repetition is also good for a student to not learn bad habits. Daily practice and serval hours each day is heaven if they do their exercises in the right way. To be frank, if I was (more than adult?) having lessons from a teacher I doubt if I was practicing as much as I should. It's not only my hard disc that's full. My life is pretty full as well. Visit my mother, seeing my grandchild, helping my children, helping friends, walking the dog, training (health), cooking ....... and when I have done all this I must rest and recover. For some years ago the sax was a way to recover. Things ain't what it used to be!

I'm not going to argue about his. I respect all methods to learn to play the sax.

But my next learning project (spreading Rock & Roll Saxophone), is going to be a RocksSax camp for for adult/old honkers for 5 whole days.

 

[Pete Effamy]

An early repetition is also good for a student to not learn bad habits. Daily practice and serval hours each day is heaven if they do their exercises in the right way. To be frank, if I was (more than adult?) having lessons from a teacher I doubt if I was practicing as much as I should. It's not only my hard disc that's full. My life is pretty full as well. Visit my mother, seeing my grandchild, helping my children, helping friends, walking the dog, training (health), cooking ....... and when I have done all this I must rest and recover. For some years ago the sax was a way to recover. Things ain't what it used to be!

I'm not going to argue about his. I respect all methods to learn to play the sax.

But my next learning project (spreading Rock & Roll Saxophone), is going to be a RocksSax camp for for adult/old honkers for 5 whole days.

I appreciate what you say, but, especially at a beginner level, if little or no practice (OR progress) is made between lessons it’s hard to do anything else other than babysit their practice. They can’t sight read, so no playing of duets or anything really.
A 5 day course for people who already play is a different matter.

 

[mizmar]

An early repetition is also good for a student to not learn bad habits.

I was going to point out that early correction is good for a student to avoid bad habits. And what separates a teacher from a book or online resource.

I don't know about teaching music, but in other contexts I like to separate out reporting from planning. In context, for example, say I take a week to learn a piece, then two weeks between lessons is too long because that work should be checked and corrections given (reporting) after a week, then another week to practice it better. Followed by new work (planning)...

But, yeah, if I spent the week doing nothing, have nothing to "report"... the schedule slips and that's that.

 

[greenstripe]

From a student perspective. This is what has worked for me personally:

Getting some good books - with decent audio tracks to work from - these include some duets and pieces with varied rhythms and styles progressively increasing in difficulty.

I work through these with my teacher and he fills in the blanks and is able to pull me up on things that I'm not aware I'm doing wrong, gets me through the bits that I'm struggling with and pushes me to progress.

We do take regular breaks from the books to play other pieces - do a bit of sight reading - stuff I'm not familiar with etc.

The books I use currently and coming to the end of are the Saxophone Method by John O'Neill which comprises of volume 1,volume 2 and Repertoire volumes 1 and 2 - Note only available for Alto Saxophone.

The audio tracks are free to download here