Mouth Piece Opening

[impulse]

I`m running into a bit of confusion here. I use soft reeds and it was my understanding that softer reeds sound better (to some people) and don`t have the same problem of sometimes "shutting off" at high volume if played with a relatively large MPC tip opening. So soft reed larger tip,hard reed smaller tip.
Why is it though that a lot of beginners start with a Yamaha 4C. and I note that this has the second smallest tip opening at 63thou.for the alto. Also a lot of lower cost sax imports have MPCs similar to the 4C. Would`nt most beginners start off with a soft reed? So maybe they and I should switch to a Yamaha 7C. Russ

 

[Rogerb]

For most beginners, with undeveloped chops, the sensible starting set-up is small-ish tip, soft-ish reed.
As your chops develop, you can choose whether to go wider or harder (or both, but in smaller increments!) 🙂

After a year plus, I'm able to play a 78 thou tip, but only with a RJS #2Soft (Medium on a good day!)....but I don't practise for hours every day!

 

[fecklesseric]

his is why mouthpieces are so confusing.

Generally, harder reeds sound better, but need a stronger embouchure to manage. Hence beginners use a softer reed. Same is generally true for mouthpieces - wider gives better sound but harder to blow.

So, beginners start with small opening + soft reed. Reed strength or tip opening can be increased as your embouchure develops and you'll get a better sound.

On the other side of things, a wider piece needs a softer reed. This is because a harder reed will not be able to bend as easily to accomodate the increased curve of the mouthpiece. This varies from piece to piece and is a bit of a dark art (at least to me).

Classical players tend to want the sound given by narrower openings, and therefore tend towards harder reeds, whilst jazz / rock players tend to get wider mouthpieces with softer reeds.

But this is all down to individual taste and reed / piece combinations. This is why good advice is to try as many combinations before you buy.

 

[Jules]

I'm with Eric on this. Though it's interesting to look at a lot of websites that show the set ups of the great players down the years. Super-wide tip openings are a very recent thing, probably due to having to hold our own against amped up guitarists. Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Cannonball Adderly, even the majority of the old R&B guys used fairly narrow 'pieces there's no NEED to get superwide to get a good/big tone.. I reckon there's a bit of "My amp goes up to 11" syndrone when it comes to mouthpieces.

 

[fecklesseric]

Didn't Coltrane play a read the size of a plank of wood though? Great sound but I personally don't want to put in 12 hour days to keep the chops that can get that sound!

8|

 

[Pete Thomas]

fecklessEric wrote:
Generally, harder reeds sound better, but need a stronger embouchure to manage.

I haven't found this to be the case. I like to use soft reeds, and you still need a strong embouchure (and even stronger diaphragm control) than harder reeds IMO if you want to get soft reeds to play loud. Once you've got your embouchure and breathing good enough to get a good wide range of dynamics with soft reeds, (and a wide tip opening helps) you then have the advantage (over harder reeds) of increased versatility of tone, esp for vibrato and note bending. That's what works for me anyway. (I started off playing 4s and gradually worked down towards 2.5).

hard reeds, soft reeds, all a matter of personal taste really, not necessarily a case of one being better than the other.

 

[Rogerb]

Yes, Ron Coelho, whose mpcs Pete favours, actually recommends quite soft reeds(about 2.5), doesn't he?

 

[Bobby G]

2.5 or thereabout works for me, with a medium-to-wide opening (Selmer F or equivalent) rather than the super-wide mentioned already. When I first started experimenting I got to the stage where I found a Rico Jazz 3 soft quite comfortable on a 5 tip, but I'm one of those who likes to bend notes (maybe something to do with my love of Johnny Hodges) and the softer reed/wider tip combo does it for me. Also, I find it easier to play very quietly.

It is indeed, as they say, a dark art, but I suppose the longer you play the better your idea will get of what's going to be right for you.

Cheers, Bob

 

[old_git]

Have worked my way up to a Vandoren Java 75 and Java 3 and RJS 3s reeds in four months.
Following the advice in this thread, used Java 2.5 this morning and for me, it sounded quite decent, notes were easier to bend, even if at my age, I'm not and the air support required seemed less.
The question is, do most of the practising using the 3 and 3s with a weekly outing on the 2.5 to maintain the hard chops or play 2.5 all the time?

 

[Linky Lee]

If you prefer the 2.5s reeds to the 3 reeds then play those.

Though it means if you want to continue to develop your embouchure you need to buy a mouthpiece with a wider tip opening. Until you get to a point that is satisfactory for you.

I've been going through this a bit recently. My embouchure has really came on in the last month and I've gone from RJS 2M to Vandoren Java 3.5s because I can't afford to buy new mouthpieces at the moment having just cleared my debts from SAS (Saxophone Acquisition Syndrome).

I'm looking at moving up to something like a link 9 with the 2.5s and I'm not planning on getting any wider at any point.

One thing I've noticed is that I prefer a smaller tip opening and harder reed on the soprano as you don't need huge amounts of bend as there is loads available already and it just makes it easier to play out of tune with a really wide tip opening on the soprano. I'm really happy with my 4C and something like a RJS 3H.

 

[TonyMoroney]

My Tuppence,

I find the whole mouthpiece debate quite confusing, because there are several different nomenclatures used for identifying them... I play an Otto Link 5* because I was told by a very good player that it would be a good 2nd MPC for someone wishing to progress the way I was heading (rock/blues/jazz).

Reeds are fine with me, because if I want to try a new brand or strength I simply go spend a couple of quid and try it. So far I 've found that I really like Rico Jazz Select 2M and Alexander Superials 2 1/2 both unfiled.

If anyone could point me to a resource (perhaps a comparative table) that can explain the black magic that is MPCs I'd be eternally grateful.... I'm a big believer in making my own (informed and educated) choices.

Cheers

T.