Saxophones Martin Committee Skyline.

[PigSquealer]

Not all Comm 1s have this. Mine doesn't. I don't know if the tone hole was adjusted and it allowed them to do away with the mech.

Yours is likely pre 118xxx with a fixed RH thumb rest. My example above is SN# 125xxx. Late in production run, 1938ish of the model. Made 1935 - 1938.
I’m guessing post SN#118xxx (or #???) this was an upgrade ? This is a new information discovery ! Would need high & low SN numbers to document the change.

 

[thomsax]

My Handcraft tenor from 1938, #128XXX, does not have the adjustment screw but a Handcraft Comm II, also from 1938 have the screw.

 

[turf3]

Yours is likely pre 118xxx with a fixed RH thumb rest. My example above is SN# 125xxx. Late in production run, 1938ish of the model. Made 1935 - 1938.
I’m guessing post SN#118xxx (or #???) this was an upgrade ? This is a new information discovery ! Would need high & low SN numbers to document the change.

I don't know the SN of mine and it's a hundred miles away, but it does have an adjustable RH thumbhook.

 

[PigSquealer]

Well this gets interesting. The Martin Story notes the adjustable RH thumb rest starts around SN# 118xxx / 1937. No notation about the C# adjuster.
My Comm 2 has it.

 

[PigSquealer]

My Handcraft tenor from 1938, #128XXX, does not have the adjustment screw but a Handcraft Comm II, also from 1938 have the screw.

I don’t think the tenors have this. Is your Comm ll an alto or tenor ?

 

[thomsax]

I don’t think the tenors have this. Is your Comm ll an alto or tenor ?

A 1940 #136XXX Handcraft Com II alto. My tenor is a Handcraft 1938 # 128XXX.

 

[PigSquealer]

@thomsax I wonder if your tenor has a non factory upgrade ? Would be really cool to view this feature on yours.
1934 catalog still showing the 1927 onwards “Master key” on altos only.

1936 there’s no mention. Was this removed ?

 

[thomsax]

I have compared my Martin Handcraft tenor (no tunning key, upper stack adjustment screw, no "Mars attack../Skyline" or "Comm 1" engraving). When my tenor was made they already made the Comm II saxes. I have compared my sax to a Comm II and an early HC (committee). Closer to a Comm II than a Comm 1. Changes were made.

 

[PigSquealer]

Thanks for the pictures.
HC Standards were made ‘35 - ‘43. SN# 112xxx - 143xxx but didn’t have the adjustable RH thumb rest. Almost seems like you have a mix of an Imperial, Standard and Committee 1 & 2.

 

[thomsax]

Thanks for the pictures.
HC Standards were made ‘35 - ‘43. SN# 112xxx - 143xxx but didn’t have the adjustable RH thumb rest. Almost seems like you have a mix of an Imperial, Standard and Committee 1 & 2.

Handcraft Imperial was was just made for a few years. 1933-1935. Great saxes with typical Martin sound. Imperial had the Eb vent/trill key below D key. Also brace on the neck and bevelded tonholes rims. I think Martin Standard was based on Imperial. Martin Speical they dropped the eb vent on no brace on the neck. It's funny. The Eb vent/trill key is open on imperial/special but closed on Martin other models? Why?

Martin Standard and Special was the model that Martin stencilled for other companies/brands. Sorkin, Dick Stable ..... . Just on brand, what I now, that are based on the a Martin Committe and that is Reynolds Contempora. RMC owned Reynolds as well.

My sax is playing like a Committe sax. The Committe toneholes , solid nickel silver keys, Committe neck ...... .

 

[turf3]

Martin really fiddled around with their models and features in that roughtly 1932-1940 time period. Two different fork Eb implementations and some with no fork Eb, multiple iterations of design on braces and key guards and engraving, adjustable thumb hook/nonadjustable thumb hook, C# adjuster/no C# adjuster, octave keys from ring to loop, solid nickel alloy keys, nickel plated keys (?? need confirm), brass lacquered keys, and I'm sure there are some others.

I wonder what was going on in the executive ranks and design department, what they were flailing about to achieve. When they issued the Committee 3 around 1945, did they throw up their hands in triumph and say "Finally! We've achieved what we were striving for!" or did they throw up their hands in exasperation and say "Enough already! We've designed the damn thing five times now, just go out and sell it!"

Because they never made a meaningful change to the #3 once it was issued.

 

[PigSquealer]

Martin really fiddled around with their models and features in that roughtly 1932-1940 time period. Two different fork Eb implementations and some with no fork Eb, multiple iterations of design on braces and key guards and engraving, adjustable thumb hook/nonadjustable thumb hook, C# adjuster/no C# adjuster, octave keys from ring to loop, solid nickel alloy keys, nickel plated keys (?? need confirm), brass lacquered keys, and I'm sure there are some others.

I wonder what was going on in the executive ranks and design department, what they were flailing about to achieve. When they issued the Committee 3 around 1945, did they throw up their hands in triumph and say "Finally! We've achieved what we were striving for!" or did they throw up their hands in exasperation and say "Enough already! We've designed the damn thing five times now, just go out and sell it!"

Because they never made a meaningful change to the #3 once it was issued.

I agree. It’s becoming apparent the Martin lineup has (to my lack of knowledge) a transitional era of a sort. 1933 to 1945 could be an interesting timeline to document.

 

[thomsax]

No person that are into mass manufacture, to earn money, have two differnt soft "soldered on" toneholes on thier saxes. Same same ... but differnt. Maybe there was things going on that we don't know?

 

[turf3]

Yours is likely pre 118xxx with a fixed RH thumb rest. My example above is SN# 125xxx. Late in production run, 1938ish of the model. Made 1935 - 1938.
I’m guessing post SN#118xxx (or #???) this was an upgrade ? This is a new information discovery ! Would need high & low SN numbers to document the change.

Mine is 118320, NO C# adjustment mechanism (and no signs of it ever having been there), WITH adjustable thumbhook.

 

[turf3]

Well this gets interesting. The Martin Story notes the adjustable RH thumb rest starts around SN# 118xxx / 1937. No notation about the C# adjuster.
My Comm 2 has it.

118320 in my possession has the adjustable thumbhook and DOES NOT have the C# adjuster.

It also does NOT play particularly sharp on high C# for me with my setup.

 

[turf3]

The plot thickens!

I did a quick trawl through the pictures in "The Martin Story" and "Saxpics" websites, Handcraft Committee, Handcraft Committee 1, Handcraft Committee 2 altos. There are many horns pictured where it's impossible to tell if the C# adjuster's present; it seems hardly anyone takes a picture of this area of the horn. But where it can positively be identified as present or absent, here are what I see (Y = present, N = absent)>

Comm 1:
116759 Y
118320 N (mine)
119xxx N
119999 N
125248 Y
126453 Y

Comm 2:
127999 maybe
129999 N
137895 Y
138999 Y
141xxx N
142604Y

Some kind of option, clearly. We'd have to look at advertising and price sheets to try to figure out the details.

 

[PigSquealer]

The plot thickens!

I did a quick trawl through the pictures in "The Martin Story" and "Saxpics" websites, Handcraft Committee, Handcraft Committee 1, Handcraft Committee 2 altos. There are many horns pictured where it's impossible to tell if the C# adjuster's present; it seems hardly anyone takes a picture of this area of the horn. But where it can positively be identified as present or absent, here are what I see (Y = present, N = absent)>

Comm 1:
116759 Y
118320 N (mine)
119xxx N
119999 N
125248 Y
126453 Y

Comm 2:
127999 maybe
129999 N
137895 Y
138999 Y
141xxx N
142604Y

Some kind of option, clearly. We'd have to look at advertising and price sheets to try to figure out the details.

Wow ! Looks consistently inconsistent ! Good job sorting over the sources, thanks 👍
The serials above cover roughly 1936 - 1942. Not many sources of catalogs in this range. The 1936 catalog on Sax.org has no mention of special orders / editions.

 

[PigSquealer]

I did a quick trawl through the pictures in "The Martin Story" and "Saxpics"

Both great sources. I use them often.
Too bad the sites haven’t updated with new information in years.

 

[PigSquealer]

118320 in my possession has the adjustable thumbhook and DOES NOT have the C# adjuster.

It also does NOT play particularly sharp on high C# for me with my setup.

The plot thickens!

I did a quick trawl through the pictures in "The Martin Story" and "Saxpics" websites, Handcraft Committee, Handcraft Committee 1, Handcraft Committee 2 altos. There are many horns pictured where it's impossible to tell if the C# adjuster's present; it seems hardly anyone takes a picture of this area of the horn. But where it can positively be identified as present or absent, here are what I see (Y = present, N = absent)>

Comm 1:
116759 Y
118320 N (mine)
119xxx N
119999 N
125248 Y
126453 Y

Comm 2:
127999 maybe
129999 N
137895 Y
138999 Y
141xxx N
142604Y

Some kind of option, clearly. We'd have to look at advertising and price sheets to try to figure out the details.

Your comment and list got me thinking. I wonder if this is a production QC fix. Those that randomly played sharp beyond a factory set threshold. Testing tech rejected and returned to production for alteration. Swapping the octave touch and C# key takes 5 minutes. A few more minutes to seal pad and regulate. Manufacturing hourly wages were about ¢.77 / hr.. So ¢.20 fix, a few pennies difference on cost of parts and nothing waisted. But why wouldn’t they just include the setup to begin with???

 

[Pete Effamy]

Make sure your clarinet playing friend has a clear handle on the difference between saxophone and clarinet embouchures.

In my opinion, and experience, even of experienced players coming to me for help, this is a very big problem for many.

Whilst getting the mouthpiece in the optimal position for the horn is a must, and adding fingers here and there to aid tuning (a practice that clarinettists should be very adept at) , the embouchure tightness / playing too high on the note is by far the biggest challenge.