Maintaining and repairing a Buescher

[Bobby G]

Are old Bueschers more expensive or more difficult to maintain than other horns? I notice they have things like screw-in springs which are said to be a bit fiddly, and snap-in pads, which seem to be unique to Bueschers. Are these parts easy to get hold of, and are they more expensive? Is it possible, or adviseable to replace Buescher-unique parts with standard parts?

Cheers, Bob

 

[Linky Lee]

With regard to the snap in pads many people hate the darn things and make a conversion to normal pads. Some places still supply snap in pads and they are only marginally more expensive than regular pads. You don't get all the different quality options with them though.

If you want to keep the Beuscher historically correct you'd have to replace with snap in pads if it originally came with them. Once a horn has been converted to standard pads, you can't easily convert back unless you want to start building odd shaped bit's of metal etc.

I wouldn't of thought they were any more expensive to maintain or repair than any other vintage horn, but you may spend more on it as you would want full jobs done on it, not just ones that will suffice etc. You'll probably want it tweaked slightly more regularly (because it's vintage), though you being you Bob, you'll do that yourself.

 

[Greywolf]

If you are looking for spares to do jobs yourself, Windcraft is probably a good place to start.

They carry a lot of spares including Norton springs

https://www.windcraft.co.uk/

I believe they are part of Dawkes, but I'm not sure.

 

[Bobby G]

Thanks, Greywolf, I'll bear that in mind. I don't actually own a Buescher, but kind of feel it in me water that one day I will. My first ever horn was a Buescher, probably only in name only as it was a student model Aristocrat 200 dating from the early 90's, or so I was told. Apart from some odd key placement, it was nice to play and a fairly chunky horn with quite a bit of weight in it. The great Don Mackrill had a quick blow on it and said it sounded ok, too.

I was asking after seeing a Big B alto on ebay, and being (very) vaguely interested in bidding for it.

Cheers, Bob

 

[griff136]

not all bueschers have Norton (screw in ) springs
and most bueschers that had snap in pads have either had the spuds or snaps (spud = the thing thats is soldered into the key cup) the snaps are the resonators that go through the pad and press (rather like a pop stud) onto the spud to hole the pad in place.
if the spud and snap and pad are original then there shoul dbe no glue/shellac holding the pad in.

as regards to maintenance - in my opinion, they do need a little more that your average vintage horn if they still have the spuds and snaps but if they have been removed then no more work or maintenance than any other horn really.

 

[onecat]

been listening to my sound clips? 😉

Seriously though, my particular Buescher was (is) a pain to maintain. In my case the horn needed tonehole work during the overhaul which wasn't originally done. My horn didn't play until it got a second overhaul including the leveling of the toneholes. I have a dent in the neck which could be affecting intonation (its going in today.) I have had various other issues with this 57 year old vintage horn, such as stuck rollers and corrosion. You really need a tech who knows Bueschers and can preserve the snap-ins, etc. A new instrument would (should) be much more hassle free but I would not trade the Buescher (sound) for anything.

 

[Bobby G]

Hi Onecat, it sounds to me, from what you and Griff are saying, as if many people over the years have got rid of the snap-in pads and gone for the regular ones because the snap-ins are more of a problem.

What happens to a horn to make it need tone-hole levelling?

Cheers, Bob

 

[onecat]

I would be hesitant to replace the original snap-in resos so as to maintain the original sound and intonation. However, I've heard some people say they actually prefer the Bueschers with modern resos. My pads are actually not snapped in, they were shellac'd in, with holes punched in the center (of regular pads) and the original small metal dome resonators were then attached. The toneholes become warped as I understand it (although not so bad it was visible.) This required levelling to get them to seal properly. After the second overhaul, it played much better -- the first guy was too afraid to mess with the toneholes for fear that he might damage the instrument (take off too much.) But obviously he was not competent enough to do it right (a full overhaul) because this was necessary. The music store responsible for this ended up refunding the money after I went trying to play the poor leaky thing for a few months and kept coming back and complaining, etc. I can't say it hasn't been worth hanging on to this instrument though, because today it plays great!

 

[onecat]

The tech said the dent is nothing to be concerned about so I'm happy.

 

[Bobby G]

good!

It seems to me that if you find an old horn that you like, it's worth keeping it going.

Cheers, Bob

 

[onecat]

I think part of it is growing attached to it too. When I first got my tenor I didn't think it was necessarily the 'best in the world' and actually it wasn't my first choice of sax at the time. But I did like certain things about it and as time went by I realized how great it really was. It is a darker sound and is a bit of an acquired taste. Now I believe it is the ultimate and don't plan on ever switching. 🙂 I've settled into this horn great.

I would highly recommend getting a nice Buescher sax if you appreciate that particular sound. My Model 156 'Crat is immeasurably rewarding to play due to it's amazingly big, thick tone that is dark, rich and complex. Nothing comes close (that I've heard.)

The bore shape is a bit different (large) and takes a bit of getting used to, if I remember right. I think it is slightly more resistant than most tenors. At least my 1950 big bell Aristocrat is this way.

Anyway, now that it's fixed there is nothing wrong with using it. It stays in adjustment just fine and is solid and well built.

 

[griff136]

OneCat wrote:
I would be hesitant to replace the original snap-in resos so as to maintain the original sound and intonation. However, I've heard some people say they actually prefer the Bueschers with modern resos. My pads are actually not snapped in, they were shellac'd in, with holes punched in the center (of regular pads) and the original small metal dome resonator spuds were then attached.

In my opinion the only reason not to remove the snap ins and spuds would be to maintain originality. The resonators wouldnt make any difference in tonal quality.

The whole idea of the snap in resonator system was to allow for a glue free method of fixing the pad to the cup. If the pads are then shellaced/glued in then the only other reeason for not removing them is that the spuds (the bit in the key cup) needs to be removed by de soldering.

Q for OneCat - how are your resonators fixed if they arent snapped onto the spuds?

Some High end Buffet saxes SA's/dynactions and superdaynactions had a similar sytem except the resonators had a hole in the centre and a screw was used to thread into the spud.

 

[Bobby G]

It makes some kind of sense to have snap-ins or screw-ins doesn't it? Saves mucking about with shellac and heat etc. Or does the shellac method make for a better, more secure fit? How do you heat the cup to melt the shellac without damaging the finish?

Cheers, Bob

 

[Pete Thomas]

If the pads are shellaced you can get away with key cups at a slight anle to the tone hole, the shellac can be used to set the pad at an angle to the keycup but level with the tonehole.

Ideally you should have keycups that come down true on the toneholes anyway.

 

[onecat]

> Q for OneCat - how are your resonators fixed if they arent snapped onto the spuds?'

Sorry, got confused. The spuds should be there, and the resos must be snapped onto them. He didn't take anything out. I think it's just the pad that is not snapped in. Weren't the original pads snap-in so you could replace them yourself at one time? I just meant that the pads are glued in, and they are standard pads with a hole in the middle.

 

[quercy]

I'm currently working on a Buescher Tru Tone C mel that had all the orginal 'spuds' and 'snaps', and probably the original pads - white leather and crumbly, like something off Miss Havisham's wedding breakfast table...

The pads are certainly a bit more difficult to seat properly than glued pads, and I've found myself resorting to shims to iron out a couple of little problems, but I think it will be worth it when it all comes together...(having a wee problem balancing the octave mechanism at the moment though, that's pretty idosyncratic too!)