Keilwerth SX90-R Saxophones - First Impressions

[tengu01]

I am seriously thinking of getting a pro-level tenor, so this weekend, I trundled off to my local music shop to try out their wares.

I have heard so many things about Selmers and seen so many amazing players on them that I went in with the expectation that I would play a Series II, fall in love and spend the next 2 months scrimping and saving for one, so I stuck on my my Otto Link STM6* onto it and gave it a good going over.

I have heard a lot of talk about the "compact" nature of the Selmer sound, but to play, I found the horn really resistant and as if I were playing through a very small tube, which produced a very restrained sound 🙁

On to the Series III. Much bigger sound, and a better horn for funk or any kind of music where you are competing with amped instruments, but still slightly resistant. I could feel the quality in the construction of the horn, but it wasn't quite the love-at-first-blow 😉 experience I had been expecting.

Still trying to see if I had missed a trick, I tried the Yamaha Custom Series 82Z. It was much more free-blowing and brighter but I wasn't too enamoured of the keywork, which felt a little flimsy. Also, the tone was just a little too bright/thin for me >.<

There were no Reference tenors in stock, so the last saxophone I tried was a Keilwerth SX90-R in Nickle Silver. I thought the finish looked a little plasticky, but nevertheless, I thought it wouldn't hurt to try.

WHAT A SAX!!!!!!!!!

I was amazed by the huge sound that rolled out of the horn. It was a real FILL-THE-ROOM-WITH-SOUND experience. I was amazed by the fatness of the sound, especially as I hadn't really been looking seriously at Keilwerths. Perhaps this was the "Big Bore" effect that I have read about.

I have two questions for everyone.

1. Has anyone else play-tested these saxes? I am really interested in other people's experiences with them.

2. Does the "Selmer effect" kick in when you reach a certain level of ability? i.e. do you need to be already at a high level of ability to really get them to sing?

 

[Pete Thomas]

I was very impressed when I tried one. But there is one technical problem in that many apparently have warped tone holes.

If it still blows well this is not necessarily a problem, but worth knowing about:

http://tinyurl.com/nxlxe

 

[tengu01]

Thanks Pete,

What's your take on the Selmer sound and the ability of the player? I am wondering whether my relative inexperience with the tenor contributed to the restistance of the Selmers

Cheers

 

[griff136]

You may wanna try the selmers using a different mouthpiece. I found that using an otto link STM on selmers didnt work for me.

you may be pleasantly surprised.

re the keilworth
good horn but the rolled tone hole warping issue pete mentioned is worth mulling over.

 

[Pete Thomas]

At 8:29:19 PM 14/05/06, tengu01 wrote:
Thanks Pete,

What's your take on the Selmer sound and the ability of the player? I am wondering whether my relative inexperience with the tenor contributed to the restistance of the Selmers

Cheers

I sold my Selmer MKVI tenor in 1982 as it just wasn't cutting it on some very demanding recording seesions re: intonation. I compared it (on the same recording - an album for Richard Thompson - in which I had to do some very tricky long low notes) with a Conn 10M. The Conn had the same sound but better intonation.

 

[tengu01]

Hey guys, thanks for the heads up on the Keilwerth toneholes issue. It seems to be quite a consistent feature of an otherwise great horn.

Bummer >.<

I did wonder whether the mouthpiece had anything to do with my Selmer experience, but I have a Geoff Lawton 8*B on its way to me , so if I get along with it, I'll be off back into town to rampage through their horn collection again

Griff 136, what're you playing at the moment and how did you get there?

 

[griff136]

Tengu01

I use:

Mk 6 Alto Silver plate
a vintage Selmer scroll shank (short) D) for concert band work
a Morgan Excaliber 6EL for big band.

MK 6 Tenor lacquer
Dukoff Metal D7
Lawton 7 Ebonite

Buescher Tipped Belll soprano & King Saxello
Vintage Berg Larsen Ebonite


The Selmer Scroll shank was in the case with the MK 6 alto when I acquired it and it just felt right.

The Excaliber I purchased when I went to Bill lewingtons when they had a shop in Town (London) I specificall went for a metal piece and Bill served me and said try this Excalibre _ I explained that I wanted a metal piece so he persuaded me to try it after I had tried 10 or so metal pieces.
I chose a lawton 6 and a Berg Larsen 100 sms 8
I then tried the Morgan and it out played both the metal pieces.

I came accross the dukoff by accident - I was testing a customers instrument in the shop I work for and I didnt have my mouthpiece with me. I asked the shop if they could let me use a mouthpiece with a patch and Adam (the salesman) said try this its half price if you like it, its been in the shop for years - I tried it and wow what a piece.

The Berg for the sop came with the instrument and I cleaned it up and had a blow it seemed nice and beefy so I kept it.

I generally use Fibracell reeds for big band and I use either alexander superial reeds, rico symmetricut reeds ( I have 3 old boxes that the shop was getting rid of) or Zonda reeds

I use bog standard orange box Rico reeds for the soprano.

I have an otto link ebonite piece for when I play bari

 

[spike]

Hi Tengu,
Been playing JK SX90 tenor now for about 16 years, (note SX90 without the tonehole rings) I could never make out any advantage of the soldered-on tonehole rings on the "R" models. I've always played the black nickel version, and love it, big sound, solid reliable machine. I tried the nickel silver model when it first came out, and didn't like it at all, for me it sounded like a beer can, and an empty one at that. If you like the JK sound try a normal SX90, but try it soon cos i believe they're phasing them out. Incidently the JK's before approx. Serial-Nr. 112,500 have a bigger bell than the later models. Your Lawton would sound really good on an SX90, they seem to match really well.

 

[tengu01]

Cheers Spike,

As soon as my Lawton gets here, looks like it's time to begin tormenting the staff in my local music shop again.

I'm going to go through all the horns I can get my hands on with the Lawton, just to see whether I missed something the first time round.

😉

 

[tengu01]

Thanks for the advice Ken,

All fresh viewpoints appreciated at the moment. Until my play tests, I had a number of preconceived opinions about the saxes I was going to play and was looking for confirmation. Herd mentality (...must be Selmer....must be Selmer....must be...) >.<

Having nobbled a number of my preconceptions on my first visit to the store, I think I am going to have to widen my frame of reference and check out the Hanson saxes as well. So far, I've tried out:

Selmer Series II & III
Yamaha Custom YTS-82Z
Keilwerth SX90-R (Nickle Silver)
Trevor James Classic (my current tenor)

Still got to try out

Yanagisawa 901/2 991/2
Selmer Reference 36 & 54
Rampone & Cazzani
Hansons (new on the list)
Yamaha Custom YTS-875II

Looks like I won't be able to do all this playtesting until my next trip to the UK, but looking forward to a few hours spent backing and forthing between all these instruments.

As I am in Switzerland, I was tempted to go try out the Inderbinen saxophones (www.inderbinen.com) until I saw the price tag attached to these horns :laugh:

For the price of 1 Inderbinen tenor, I could get a new pro tenor and alto from any other big name brand and still have change for a pint or two.

The quest continues.....

 

[lee_]

Regarding the Keilwerth, The tone hole problem appears to be a quality control issue and not something that is going to turn up after you've used the horn for a time. In other words, if it's bad, it'll be bad right out of the box.

Since you're apparently going to buy from a retailer, I'm sure they would agree that you could take the horn to a repair shop to have it checked out. Thus, if you find one you like, and the repairman checks it out and determines the toneholes are okay, then you're home free in this regard. (It would certainly be easier to give the horn back than have the toneholes fixed).

The SX90R's are very popular around here among alto players, although all the ones I've seen are with the plain lacquer finish. Huge sound.

 

[rebellion117]

At 12:28:47 PM 15/05/06, tengu01 wrote:
Still got to try out

Yanagisawa 901/2 991/2
Selmer Reference 36 & 54
Rampone & Cazzani
Hansons (new on the list)
Yamaha Custom YTS-875II

I tried out a Yanagisawa soprano one time, in my quest to replace my $250 (US) BandNow soprano (never heard of them? neither had I - I'm in high school, and my parents said that if I wanted to buy a soprano, I had to do it myself, so i did). I wasn't too terribly impressed with the Yani's keywork, especially the palm keys. Instead of the normal triangular arrangement, they were in a line, straight up and down, which made it a little awkward to play high D and up.

Cory

 

[Jimmymack]

I've been playing a Keilwerth SX-90R tenor for about 14 years. It's a great horn with a full, rich and punchy sound and spot-on intonation, it can shake the walls and it can whisper. Some people say that the Keilwerth doesn't blend well but that hasn't been my experience.

The issue of warped toneholes is, in my opinion, overblown. Stephen Howard makes a convincing case but my horn blows easily right the way down and subtones to a whisper, the pads from low D down are the originals and I don't need added pressure to get a seal. Either I've been "lucky" or this is an irrelevance, the horn plays as you would expect a pro horn to.

I don't know about the Selmer effect. I've only tried a handful and haven't been unduly impressed except with an overpriced, battered SBA tenor and a Mark6 alto. I still yearn for that alto but in terms of tenor I tend to look elsewhere although I still feel the lure of Selmer. I tend to play a King Super 20 as my main horn because it fits my hands better and it's a beautiful player but the Keilwerth is a match for any modern horn.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Lee wrote:
Regarding the Keilwerth, The tone hole problem appears to be a quality control issue and not something that is going to turn up after you've used the horn for a time. In other words, if it's bad, it'll be bad right out of the box.

I've heard from Stephen Howard recently about this, apparently any warped tone hole issues will not necessarily manifest themselves out of the box.

Quote SH:

"The horn could well sound excellent out of the box - but as the
pads become less pliable, and thus less able to compensate for
any anomalies in the tone holes, the sound will deteriorate.

This is why so many SX90R owners swear blind that their horns
work fine....it's a problem with a time-delay built in."

 

[lee_]

Pete, that's why I suggested he take the new horn and have it checked out by a tech first. A repairman could check the levelness of the toneholes whether or not the pads were leaking, right?

 

[Pete Thomas]

Yes, good advice. Don't just rely on how it seems to be at first.

 

[spike]

. . . and always try out as many horns as possible, they're made of over five hundred bits and pieces. Many horns of the same identical make and model are often very, very different. Be super sceptical, especially if you're puttin out big bucks for a new pro horn. and if you know your dealer well enough, tell him you're taking a few home for the weekend.