John O'Neill's Jazz Method Book (Tenor)

mark_whiteley · Jul 12, 2008

Hi Everyone

I Can't see a John O'neill Topic anywhere on the site, so though it might be useful to start one.

Everyone who's used this book will probably agree that it is excellent. Of course it has some oddities but generally speaking it is a wonderful resource.

Of course towards the middle of this book for beginners it starts to get a lot more difficult. Tunes are a lot faster too. By pages 54 & 55 ( 3 of my 'Archilles Heel' tunes 'Lucky Rhythm', 'Summer Hummer' and ' Lady Pres' things are moving at between 126 and 144.

I have previously been stuck for weeks, or was it months! on page 42 with 'The Way Of All Things'. I still can't do it to speed properly yet. All of these tunes are great for testing your ability to produce consistently strong and tuneful notes above the 'C' bridge.

I would be interested to hear how others are getting on with this book, which tunes you've found the most challenging/easy, any tips, any thoughts on the frustration side of getting to grips with this book etc!

Thanks

Mark W

peter_fitton · Jul 12, 2008

Hi Mark. Actually the O'Neill book/CD has been mentioned quite a lot. Quite often by yours truly lol.

It's a great course, I think, but I agree that it does get quite tricky quite quickly, and The Way of All Things is where I started to struggle with it.

Best advice would be to play the faster pieces at a slow tempo to begin with (not along with the CD, obviously) until you're confident that you can play them well, and then to gradually increase the tempo until you can match the CD speed. A metronome would be a great idea, though I must admit to not having bought one myself :erm:

There are some fairly easy pieces after page 42, to be fair. Alicante, Like Benny, Lullaby, The Loneliest Monk and Trane Refrain are all quite simple but a joy to play, I think. And even towards the end you've got things like Spanish Steps, which is great fun to play and easier than it looks on the page.

Have you mastered Euphrates yet? I love that tune but it always trips me up 😡

If you're in need of a laugh you could check out this vid of me playing Romancing from the book http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qKMKRrLIDFU

Cheers

Peter

Kinda · Jul 12, 2008

I too have swopped to this book after using, Tune a Day, Ravenscroft, Boosey and Hawkes etc etc. I agree the O'Neil book is very good.

I'd had the book for a few months and didn't swap immediately because I didn't want to miss anything but I got so bored with the Tune a Day I thought its about time to use it full time rather than just for breaks from the other tutors.

Likewise it gets very difficult quickly but again I find this challenging and the tunes are interesting and I like the fingering chart.

I had thought the pull out fingering chart from Ravenscroft's was the best but think the O'Neill far better.

u_can_call_me_al · Jul 12, 2008

This was the first really useful book I found when beginning. Yes it did get dificult quite quickly.

Rip the Cd to mp3 files. Get a free downloadable copy of audacity from the net. It is a very simple program to use.

Load the track you want and slow it down using audacity without altering the pitch to a speed with which you are comfortable. Practice gradually increasing the speed.

The only downside is you will be stuck if front of your PC to practice.

SaxCat · Jul 13, 2008

Another good program to slow down tunes without altering pitch is BestPractice (http://www.xs4all.nl/~mp2004/bp/). It only works with Windows though.

sharon · Jul 13, 2008

I've got this and I tend to dip in and out. I'm really enjoying the bit about interval and ear training at the moment. Great book which I think is one you can spend a long time with.

Sharon

TomMapfumo · Jul 13, 2008

I have mainly used the equivalent Trumpet book, co-authored by Steve Waterman. It is a good text, though I have enjoyed the Creative Saxophone series more overall 8) and the ABRSM Jazz Grades material.

Kind regards
Tom

TomMapfumo · Jul 13, 2008

Just google Kellie Santin in. Anyone who wants an inspiring female alto role model will not be disappointed.

Kind regards
Tom 8)

mark_whiteley · Jul 13, 2008

Thanks Peter

I'll check out your video; some good advice from you there; Euphrates is my next challenge after Lady Prez.

Peter Fitton wrote:

Hi Mark. Actually the O'Neill book/CD has been mentioned quite a lot. Quite often by yours truly lol.

It's a great course, I think, but I agree that it does get quite tricky quite quickly, and The Way of All Things is where I started to struggle with it.

Best advice would be to play the faster pieces at a slow tempo to begin with (not along with the CD, obviously) until you're confident that you can play them well, and then to gradually increase the tempo until you can match the CD speed. A metronome would be a great idea, though I must admit to not having bought one myself :erm:

There are some fairly easy pieces after page 42, to be fair. Alicante, Like Benny, Lullaby, The Loneliest Monk and Trane Refrain are all quite simple but a joy to play, I think. And even towards the end you've got things like Spanish Steps, which is great fun to play and easier than it looks on the page.

Have you mastered Euphrates yet? I love that tune but it always trips me up 😡

If you're in need of a laugh you could check out this vid of me playing Romancing from the book http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qKMKRrLIDFU

Cheers

Peter

mark_whiteley · Jul 13, 2008

Tnaks for Audacity tip Al, I'll try it out. Mark

quote]
U Can Call Me Al wrote:
This was the first really useful book I found when beginning. Yes it did get dificult quite quickly.

Rip the Cd to mp3 files. Get a free downloadable copy of audacity from the net. It is a very simple program to use.

Load the track you want and slow it down using audacity without altering the pitch to a speed with which you are comfortable. Practice gradually increasing the speed.

The only downside is you will be stuck if front of your PC to practice.
[/quote]

nick_cook · Jul 14, 2008

Peter Fitton wrote:

If you're in need of a laugh you could check out this vid of me playing Romancing from the book http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qKMKRrLIDFU

Cheers

Peter

[color:green]No laughing here Peter, that sounded good. I'm on Romancing at the moment. I haven't quite mastered yet it though, still making a few mistakes - but I'll get there!!![/color]

TomMapfumo · Jul 14, 2008

Good sound Peter! I can remember playing that tune on my flugelhorn early last year from the equivalent trumpet book before getting stuck in to Jazz Grades - brought back a whole mixture of memories. I can see you in a few months time beginning to bend some notes and mucking about with the piece timing wise etc. as you continue to develop your technique.

Kind regards
Tom

shropshire_lad · Jul 14, 2008

Personally I prefer the O'Neil book to the Creative Saxophone Series that Tom mentioned - although to be fair I have only used the first book of that series. I find O'Neil's tune selection more interesting, prefer that they are all on the CD, and find he offers more in the way of advice for anyone studying without a teacher on hand.

Nevertheless my teacher much prefers "Creative Saxophone" which he uses for his adult beginners. I feel that using "Creative Saxophone" also allows you to feel like you are making progress - there are fewer tunes/exercises where you get stuck.

Perhaps it is best to use a number of studies. This is what I do. If I get stuck on one exercise I might switch to another book. If I go back to the problem after a week or so I usually find it a lot easier.

Dave

TomMapfumo · Jul 14, 2008

Totally agree! I only have the other books in the Creative saxophone series - Improvisation and Workbook, which I like. I have used the O'Neill for Trumpet, so prefer other stuff on Sax, including ABRSM Jazz Grades material.

Any other stuff which you have found useful? Let us know.
Kind regards

Tom

shropshire_lad · Jul 15, 2008

As you ask, but briefly as I'm not sure if this strays from the topic.

I also rate Peter Wastall's (why isn't he tall anymore?) "Learn as You Play" for classical pieces. Also any of James Rae's collections especially "Style Workout" and the more advanced pieces in his "20 Modern Studies". Andy Hampton's "It Don't Mean a Thing" is a good play along collection of standards for grade 4-6 (therefore too tricky for complete beginners - but not simplified beyond recognition). I also like Joseph Viola's Scales Study book - however Pete's stuff on this website is also very good for scales and exercises.

Finally "A New Tune A Day - Book 1" told me the basics really fast, but the tunes are for kids.

Dave

mark_whiteley · Jul 16, 2008

Very impressive Peter.

I love this tune but I think I'm a bit behind you in terms of note quality, sounded very consistent and confident. Nice One!

Mark

Nick Cook wrote:

Peter Fitton wrote:

If you're in need of a laugh you could check out this vid of me playing Romancing from the book http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qKMKRrLIDFU

Cheers

Peter

Read more…

[color:green]No laughing here Peter, that sounded good. I'm on Romancing at the moment. I haven't quite mastered yet it though, still making a few mistakes - but I'll get there!!![/color]

peter_fitton · Jul 16, 2008

Thanks Mark, Nick & Tom. Felt a bit bad about posting the clip in here since I'd already posted it in 'Your Soundclips' but I suppose it's relevant to the topic...

As Mark said in his opening post, there are a few oddities with the O'Neill book - no mentions (unless I've somehow missed them) of vibrato, note-bending or growling for example. Though perhaps growling is considered more of a blues/rock thing and so not appropriate for a jazz book? But the tunes are little gems of inventive, melodic jazz - love 'em.

Peter

koumou · Jul 17, 2008

I've been learning to play the alto for the past 6 months, and amongst others I also have the John O'Neill's Jazz Method Book, which I am very pleased with. I find the pieces very interesting musically.

I've ordered a Hanson St-5 Tenor which I am hoping to receive in the next few days.

Does anybody know if the John O'Neill's Jazz Method Book for tenor
has the same CD but with the printed music transposed for the tenor, or does the book have the same printed music with a different recording pitch on the CD?