Misc instruments "I can't sing" - course; very nervous

[rhysonsax]

I have been re-reading this thread as it has become relevant to me. Last year I started playing the ukulele and did a course for absolute beginners. I enjoyed that a lot as it's interesting to learn more about chords, inversions, chord sequences etc. and also to have an opportunity to sing and play at the same time. It's also interesting to find out how guitar and uke players read music from song sheets with chords and from TAB.

One of the other uke players told me about a new and entirely separate course for a new male singing group (not a choir), so I also signed up for that. It's for male novice singers and the group consists of some retired people and some younger ones too. The teacher is experienced, but I'm somewhat struggling with their methods and choices of songs so far. It's not aimed at experienced musicians, so there are lyric sheets rather than sheet music and we are expected to "learn by copying the original recordings" which is fair enough but not easy.

The first three songs have been Crocodile Rock (Elton John), Oh, What a Beautiful Morning (from Oklahoma) and Everything (Michael Buble). Nice songs, but each one has sections where the original goes well above my range (and probably most of the others). And also the original singers are truly great in their own ways, so there are lots of subtleties of rhythm and pitch which are beyond me and definitely a challenge for a group trying to keep together.

I would have expected the initial material to be much easier, both in terms of melody, range and rhythm, so that the group can enjoy singing together and develop our techniques and ears.

I have sat at the piano and also checked with a tuning App on my phone and I think my range at the moment is F2 to D4 (that's the D above middle C). I don't think I am using "head voice" at all as I don't understand how to make that work.

Early days I suppose.

Rhys

 

[mizmar]

my range at the moment is F2 to D4

I've, more or less settled down to Eb2 and am slowly pushing above C4

FWIW - and I suppose your course offers better ideas - I did this 60 day challenge for a lot longer than that, with a tuning app; Indeed after a couple of months my tuning was improving. The choir also has mostly a music sheet + each part mp3 piano track and I check myself against that.

View: https://youtu.be/flaRTPy_9LE


Chappie has a bari-base (Eb2 and up, including "head voice") video of exercises as well, that I use a couple of times a week.

rhythm and pitch which are beyond me

Yeah; the choir has a tenor section and a small clutch of chaps who can handle higher notes.
As for rhythm - my struggles with rhythm have provided me with tools to get into of that! Happy clappy slappy stuff helps!

 

[rhysonsax]

I've, more or less settled down to Eb2 and am slowly pushing above C4

FWIW - and I suppose your course offers better ideas - I did this 60 day challenge for a lot longer than that, with a tuning app; Indeed after a couple of months my tuning was improving. The choir also has mostly a music sheet + each part mp3 piano track and I check myself against that.

View: https://youtu.be/flaRTPy_9LE


Chappie has a bari-base (Eb2 and up, including "head voice") video of exercises as well, that I use a couple of times a week.


Yeah; the choir has a tenor section and a small clutch of chaps who can handle higher notes.
As for rhythm - my struggles with rhythm have provided me with tools to get into of that! Happy clappy slappy stuff helps!

Thanks for that video link which looks very good.

When it comes to rhythm I can read it with notation and might even stand a fighting chance with copying the original recording if it weren't for some others standing next to me singing loudly, confidently and quite wrong - sometimes up to two bars in front or behind !

Does your leader or instructor use a piano (or voice or other instrument) to demonstrate the melody line (or lines if your group sings harmony) ? I think that would help us a lot.

Rhys

 

[mizmar]

Does your leader or instructor use a piano (or voice or other instrument) to demonstrate the melody line (or lines if your group sings harmony) ?

He sings and pianos. He's almost always behind of the piano (can play while standing and looking at us) and will go round each part (base 1 and 2 (bari-base) Tenor 1 (solos) and 2) and lead the part.
But my memory can't handle as much info is thrown at us at rehearsals. So I practice at home both for the music and pronunciation of the various dialects. If available using the above and when necessary I record a run through on the phone (and keep quite). I'm tempted to take my zoom - but, well, social shame!

 

[mizmar]

So I practice at home both for the music

To add; I'll often run the melody on a tin whistle if possible. Parts a rarely more than an octave or so, largely diatonic, I've a small collection of whistles and it's easier than lugging the sax out; so it kinda bridges the song between voice and music.

 

[Tenor Viol]

I have been re-reading this thread as it has become relevant to me. Last year I started playing the ukulele and did a course for absolute beginners. I enjoyed that a lot as it's interesting to learn more about chords, inversions, chord sequences etc. and also to have an opportunity to sing and play at the same time. It's also interesting to find out how guitar and uke players read music from song sheets with chords and from TAB.

One of the other uke players told me about a new and entirely separate course for a new male singing group (not a choir), so I also signed up for that. It's for male novice singers and the group consists of some retired people and some younger ones too. The teacher is experienced, but I'm somewhat struggling with their methods and choices of songs so far. It's not aimed at experienced musicians, so there are lyric sheets rather than sheet music and we are expected to "learn by copying the original recordings" which is fair enough but not easy.

The first three songs have been Crocodile Rock (Elton John), Oh, What a Beautiful Morning (from Oklahoma) and Everything (Michael Buble). Nice songs, but each one has sections where the original goes well above my range (and probably most of the others). And also the original singers are truly great in their own ways, so there are lots of subtleties of rhythm and pitch which are beyond me and definitely a challenge for a group trying to keep together.

I would have expected the initial material to be much easier, both in terms of melody, range and rhythm, so that the group can enjoy singing together and develop our techniques and ears.

I have sat at the piano and also checked with a tuning App on my phone and I think my range at the moment is F2 to D4 (that's the D above middle C). I don't think I am using "head voice" at all as I don't understand how to make that work.

Early days I suppose.

Rhys

hmmm.... copying an original is probably not a good idea, there's a reason why you start with arrangements... Simple example: song sung by Bing Crosby - easy crooner? No, he had an extraordinary range of over 3 octaves. Most decent amateur singers have a range of about 2.

I woudl expect a novice group to have the teacher play parts on the piano and you listen, the repeat it back and build it up. Learning by rote from lyric sheets works for some people, I hate it as it is much quicker for me to work from music.

 

[rhysonsax]

hmmm.... copying an original is probably not a good idea, there's a reason why you start with arrangements... Simple example: song sung by Bong Crosby - easy crooner? No, he had an extraordinary range of over 3 octaves. Most decent amateur singers have a range of about 2.

I woudl expect a novice group to have the teacher play parts on the piano and you listen, the repeat it back and build it up. Learning by rote from lyric sheets works for some people, I hate it as it is much quicker for me to work from music.

To be honest those are exactly my thoughts too.

Rhys

PS Good old Bong Crosby !

 

[Targa]

To be honest those are exactly my thoughts too.

Rhys

PS Good old Bong Crosby !

Explains his ‘laid back’ style.

 

[Tenor Viol]

To be honest those are exactly my thoughts too.

Rhys

PS Good old Bong Crosby !

Yeah, don't type early in the morning when under-caffeinated! Edited.

I sing in a community choir and the first few 'songs' were off lyric sheets, which I hate. We now get music. A lot of them don't read, but it definitely speeds things up

 

[MikeMorrell]

I have been re-reading this thread as it has become relevant to me. Last year I started playing the ukulele and did a course for absolute beginners. I enjoyed that a lot as it's interesting to learn more about chords, inversions, chord sequences etc. and also to have an opportunity to sing and play at the same time. It's also interesting to find out how guitar and uke players read music from song sheets with chords and from TAB.

One of the other uke players told me about a new and entirely separate course for a new male singing group (not a choir), so I also signed up for that. It's for male novice singers and the group consists of some retired people and some younger ones too. The teacher is experienced, but I'm somewhat struggling with their methods and choices of songs so far. It's not aimed at experienced musicians, so there are lyric sheets rather than sheet music and we are expected to "learn by copying the original recordings" which is fair enough but not easy.

The first three songs have been Crocodile Rock (Elton John), Oh, What a Beautiful Morning (from Oklahoma) and Everything (Michael Buble). Nice songs, but each one has sections where the original goes well above my range (and probably most of the others). And also the original singers are truly great in their own ways, so there are lots of subtleties of rhythm and pitch which are beyond me and definitely a challenge for a group trying to keep together.

I would have expected the initial material to be much easier, both in terms of melody, range and rhythm, so that the group can enjoy singing together and develop our techniques and ears.

I have sat at the piano and also checked with a tuning App on my phone and I think my range at the moment is F2 to D4 (that's the D above middle C). I don't think I am using "head voice" at all as I don't understand how to make that work.

Early days I suppose.

Rhys

FWIW and probably OT, I still have a strong connection with a local Welsh village choir (where I was born). We all started out (60 years ago] as a 'children's choir' (8-17). Soon after joining secondary school, I left the choir because it wasn't 'cool' to sing in a choir. But many of the current (adult) choir members have stayed with the choir all their lives. Whenever I visit my home village in Wales, I always go to a couple of 'choir practices'. What has surprised me over the past 5-10 years is that choir members sing much more within their 'vocal range' (rather than sex). So for example, the choir now has female tenors and male altos.

Mike
PS.A couple of years ago, I did a 'karaoke' session with some friends. I had some great songs lined up beforehand but I found that there was no way that I could 'sing' many of them. Either because the vocal 'pitch' (and range) was too high or too low for my (very limited!) vocal range. So I made a new selection purely based on the songs that I could cover within my (limited) vocal range.