Saxophones How will Tariffs affect Sax Prices?

[mizmar]

What are the tariffs based on?

Here's a non-political explanation. I've seen in more political places.

View: https://youtu.be/j04IAbWCszg

 

[ghostler]

China also does manufacturing of sax pads of all sizes, cork grease, cork, felt and other bumper materials, and etc. I was able to obtain pad sets for my older saxes very reasonably before Covid. Shipment from China to my home in US took about 10 - 14 days, or, I would buy from a US source who wholesaled them from China.

Covid had an affect on shipping. Costs have risen considerably along with associated delays to the extent where I now seek mostly US sources (who resell Chinese goods).

There will be an impact on the techs who do our repairs. If their material costs rise because of the tariffs, then our costs will rise, too. It will be interesting to hear inputs from those who support themselves by the instrument repair trade. The previous lower costs allowed them to purchase certain used saxes, repair them, and resell for profit.

Material cost and availability allowed them to have a better chance to market these saxes and continue business, IMO.

 

[Targa]

Prices on everything will rise because people will as always take any opportunity, reason, excuse, for more profiteering. Then when the tariffs are removed the prices will not come down because they will say they have been absorbing those costs.

 

[jazzdoh]

I think with the threat of possibly 104% tariffs on Chinese goods will undoubtedly make the likes of Eastman, Bettersax, Jean Paul, Conn-Selmer and possibly Cannonball (not sure where they source their horns from) totally uncompetitive.

 

[jonf]

I think with the threat of possibly 104% tariffs on Chinese goods will undoubtedly make the likes of Eastman, Bettersax, Jean Paul, Conn-Selmer and possibly Cannonball (not sure where they source their horns from) totally uncompetitive.

You're right, but there's probably a better word than uncompetitive. Competitive suggests there is competition, whereas at the low end of the sax market, all saxes come from sources to be hit by high tariffs. There isn't any other source, and it is completely unrealistic to think that domestic manufacture will spring up in a market such as that for musical instruments. It simply means that in the markets 'protected' by high unliteral border tariffs, saxes will become expensive.

 

[jazzdoh]

You're right, but there's probably a better word than uncompetitive. Competitive suggests there is competition, whereas at the low end of the sax market, all saxes come from sources to be hit by high tariffs. There isn't any other source, and it is completely unrealistic to think that domestic manufacture will spring up in a market such as that for musical instruments. It simply means that in the markets 'protected' by high unliteral border tariffs, saxes will become expensive.

Your right Jon, maybe there might be a loophole for the US if these companies have their stock from a 3rd country eg they setup companies in the UK or some other low tariff country then ship from China to UK and then onto the US, I'm sure that they will be looking at all avenues if the threat materialises.

 

[jonf]

I've been listening and read about the new tariffs. What are the tariffs based on? Are they based on adjustments on the tariffs that we have today? Right now it's nothing to talk about .... Is it a new world order we see? UN, WHO, WTO, Treaty of Paris ...... nothing to care about?

They're based on unilteral decisions to add a fee to goods crossing a border, in addition to any existing tariffs. There is nothing for international organisations to say or do for them to be brought into effect.

 

[mizmar]

there might be a loophole

Back in the day,.when Hong Kong was a British protectorate, "make in Hong Kong" was a cover for "made in China" in the UK.
As things stand, it could be that "Made in Britain" becomes a cover for "Made in China" in the US?

 

[Pete Thomas]

As this stand, it could be that "Made in Britain" becomes a cover for "Made in China" in the US?

So you are saying a UK company could import from China, rebadge it and sell to the US as imported from the UK?

I don't think so if this is correct:

It is important to be aware the tariffs are based on the country of origin (not the country of dispatch) and the value. There are rules for determining origin and this is generally based on country of production/last significant transformation and not country of dispatch.

 

[MarkSax]

Your right Jon, maybe there might be a loophole for the US if these companies have their stock from a 3rd country eg they setup companies in the UK or some other low tariff country then ship from China to UK and then onto the US, I'm sure that they will be looking at all avenues if the threat materialises.

No can do. Country of origin rules apply. Items made in China will still attract China tariffs even if transit thru UK.
I’m going to set up a a smuggling operation in light goods across the MX and CA borders into the US. Going to become very very rich, RICH!! Just like the guy said. 😀😀😀

 

[Targa]

They've thought of that.

Trump tariffs: How island of penguins and seals ended up on list

The remote Heard and McDonald Islands haven't been visited by humans in almost a decade.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[mizmar]

country of origin vs country of dispatch

Sure. Which is already true for, for example, UK cars being exported to the EU - hence the whole car battery exemption / extension / manufacturing thing just last year or so.

I'm sure saxophone brands can find gapes to squeeze through. Just label a saxophone "incomplete marching band components" or something.... It's not like the UK has actually implemented much by way of border checks anyway...

 

[Targa]

This has reminded me of the Irishman stopped while going through Liverpool docks carrying two large bags.
The policeman asked him what have you got in that bag?
It's fifty iphones, sir.
What's in the other bag?
That's fifty Samsungs, sir.
Why are you bringing that many in?
Well my mate asked me to bring him two sacks o' phones.

 

[jazzdoh]

No can do. Country of origin rules apply. Items made in China will still attract China tariffs even if transit thru UK.
I’m going to set up a a smuggling operation in light goods across the MX and CA borders into the US. Going to become very very rich, RICH!! Just like the guy said. 😀😀😀

What would happen if a Chinese company built a factory in another country in the same way Bentley and Rolls Royce which is made in the uk but Germany owned

 

[jonf]

What would happen if a Chinese company built a factory in another country in the same way Bentley and Rolls Royce which is made in the uk but Germany owned

Then it's UK manufactured. There are loads of examples of companies doing this, albeit less so with the Chinese owned ones. If the parts are manufactured in part overseas, they're liable to import duties and tariffs. In terms of onward tariffs (if the finished item gets sold to the US) how much they would get hit depends on how the country of origin rules are implemented. It could be in part, depending on the value of the (let's say) Chinese components in a UK made item. Could get complicated.

 

[MarkSax]

What would happen if a Chinese company built a factory in another country in the same way Bentley and Rolls Royce which is made in the uk but Germany owned

Then the tariff would be the rate for the other country if the goods were made in there. Country of origin rules apply to where the product is made not who owns the factory. Bentley and RR will have tariffs for the UK applied to them, not German ones.
As jonf said it can get complicated. Some countries operate freeports where an incomplete imported product is completed and represents let’s say 70% of the final price, then that product will be labelled as originating from the country where the freeport is situated.

 

[Pete Thomas]

What would happen if a Chinese company built a factory in another country in the same way Bentley and Rolls Royce which is made in the uk but Germany owned

They'd have to charge a lot more for their instruments unless the labour in that country was as cheap as it is in China. Would you pay £6K for a Made in England Jollysun?

 

[jazzdoh]

Whatever happens it's going to get messy.

 

[ghostler]

I think with the threat of possibly 104% tariffs on Chinese goods will undoubtedly make the likes of Eastman, Bettersax, Jean Paul, Conn-Selmer and possibly Cannonball (not sure where they source their horns from) totally uncompetitive.

IMO, the latest stencil "intermediate" (called "premium beginner" ) sax from Selmer appears to be of Chinese origin. It is sold under the US label of Selmer as the Conn Selmer USA branch of Henri Selmer France. Notice the double supported bell lower note pad cups.

SELMER Tenor Saxophone in Bb STS301

Learn more about the SELMER Tenor Saxophone in Bb STS301.

connselmer.com

By calling it a "Selmer", it currently is selling for $3,369.00 US, example:
Musician's Friend: Selmer 300 Series Tenor Saxophone Lacquer Nickel Plated Keys
I don't want to sound facetious, but I bought my Venus tenor sax new from E-Bay seller Musical Wheel roughly a decade ago for around $430 US.

Musical Wheel photo that I saved on my hard drive. They no longer offer tenor saxes for sale.

It appears a very good likelihood that in essence, one is buying a Venus tenor as a Selmer. Without tariffs, appears that I saved 90% off the Conn-Selmer "marketing tariff" with my "Selmer premium beginner" buy.
(Does this mean I can now call my Venus Tenor a "Selmer"?)

 

[Pete Thomas]

It appears a very good likelihood that in essence, one is buying a Venus tenor as a Selmer.

Or else it could be a very good unlikelihood. How would you/we know?