How do you choose a sax?

[Linky Lee]

As you may know I'm saving up to buy a tenor sax that will provide me with the tools I need to get the best out of my playing.

For me these are a nice playing, feeling saxophone that promotes playability not getting in it's way. A saxophone that responds to the input with a nice output unlike many saxophones which seem 'expressionless' or 'dead'.

This is basically the holy grail of saxophones, I know there is never a perfect set-up but I want to get darn close!

To get this is obviously a balance between saxophone mouthpiece and reed... and player!

If you're starting from scratch how do you go about choosing what is going to provide you with the best fit so to speak?

The way I see it, the saxophone's most important aspect is how it feels and plays, the mouthpiece and reed are how resistive they blow and what they allow you to do with the sound.

So do you find a mouthpiece, choose a nice reed and then find a sax that feels nice?

Or do you get a sax that sounds great, find a mouthpiece for it and whack a reed on?

Open to discussion, I thought this might be interesting.
I guess ideally it would be best to get it all together at the same time, but isn't really an option for anyone, so I'm for mouthpiece first at the moment.

 

[mfox]

good topic linky.and one that can't surely have a single answer..

i'm 40 years old and i'm now happy with my selmer mk 6 that i've had for 15 years. i wouldn't swap it for anything except maybe a good balanced action with a low action..
i'm quite lucky that i grew up around sax players, my Grandfather ran his own bands and i got to know some of the guys, who let me know what was good and why..
my first sax was an old 1930s American elk hart tenor, which i got aged 15, which was more than great for a first horn. i could still be playing this horn had it not been stolen.. then i got a conn. i loved this sax except when i played sitting my jacket buttons would get caught in the B-Bb tone holes, so i got rid of it when a mk 6 came up which i didn't keep, during the year i got my current mk6 i must have had 4 other mk6s a couple of super action that lasted a matter of weeks..then i bought a mk6 that didn't play, it was being used as a wall decoration i paid ?150 for it got it repaired and the thing was the best sax i've ever played and i wont part with it..
as far as MPs are concerned i've been a dukoff player since the start. untill a year or so ago when i moved to a yanigasawa MP.. i don't believe in switching all the time and trying new MPs i think it dose more harm than good.. a player knows when a MP is for him / her, stick with it and develop your sound from there..

i hope this gives you an idea of how things can develop organicaly, especially for a young guy like you..

to answer a few of your other points:
if you as starting from scratch, if your serious about playing, get a quality instument, or one that is easy to sell. for a fast upgrade, don't buy a pimpy modle that you maywell be stuck with.

mouthpiece: you need to get your sax first and marry the MP to it.. buying a MP first, you will ,i'm sure end up buying another later..

i hope this gives you a few things to thing about

 

[Bobby G]

How do you choose a sax? Go round Jambo's and do a swap 🙂

I don't want to get too mystical on y'all here, but it feels to me more as if my saxes have chosen me, which is how I've ended up with such a disparate bunch.

Generally, though, I suppose the sax comes first, usually with a not-ideal mouthpiece included on which I try various reeds until I find something I like, then upgrade the mouthpiece.

That was certainly the case early on in my sax-buying career, later when I knew what mpc/reed combo I liked I could try that on other saxes, which is exactly how I got to owning the Dolnet, and also how I got my Yani tenor, having found a mpc/reed setup I liked when I first got the YTS-23.

Incidentally, a point about my YTS-23 which applies to any horn - I had the Yani (a pro horn), a superior tenor in every way to the Yamaha (bruised, scratched, no top F# etc, only an old 'student' model), but the Yani never sat in the case saying 'play me' in the way the Yamaha does. I've discovered this since the Yani went and the YTS-23 came back out of storage, I've played more tenor in the last two days on it than the previous month on the Yani.

The point being that you can't put a price on that - whether it's the top Conn or MkVI, or a battered low-end old Yamaha, it has to make you want to play... and play, which is why I think it's almost as if your sax chooses you rather than you choosing your sax.

Cheers, Bob

 

[Linky Lee]

Some nice points there, and I understand what both of you were saying.

Luckily for me I have managed to narrow my search down to a few instruments only, the Yanigasawa T901, a Hanson ST-8 and another possible contender of a vintage horn if one pops up that is right.

I agree that changing mouthpieces and set-ups too often at the start can wreak havoc, but I haven't really started on tenor, and my Alto and Soprano set-ups will be staying the same as I'm very happy with them at the moment.

Thanks for all your ideas, there is certainly many different answers as you said, and most likely we all have a different one!

 

[jambo]

Yes Bob, you were destined to have that Dolnet... I was just the vessel that helped bring it to you 😛 Im lovin the Yani too 🙂

And for the topic, I cant say much as I haven't been in the position where I have gone to try loads of different saxes to find the one I want. I have an Elkhart Soprano that I got from ebay for 150quid, and I love it. It may not be the most amazing sax ever, but as my Teacher (who playes a 200quid Artemis Alto) says when somone challenges him on the quality of his instrument 'Well theres nothing wrong with it'. I could quite happily go on with my little soprano, the main reason why I plan to upgrade to a Yani next year is because it will last for years, and also if I am to start playing in front of large crowds, I will want something thats innotation is a little more stable.

When I do go to buy a new sax, this is how I will prioritize the different aspects which will help me decide. Obviously sound is the first and most important thing... but as im a firm believer that the player makes the sound not the horn, I have not included it.

1) Feel of playing: how free blowing it is, what the notes feel like when they pop out, vibrations of the horn ect this also includes how various finishes effect the feel of play

2) Physical Feel of Horn: includes weight, shape, key buttons shape and location ect

3) Innotatin (even though its very important, I put in behind the feels as I am presuming that most good horns have decent innotation... and if not perfect can be made good by the player

4) Look of Horn: Finish, layout ect

Now thats probably the longest message ive ever posted on here lol

 

[mfox]

for a horn that is free blowing with a good sound. try a yamaha custom Z .. my alto is a joy to play..

 

[Pjonah]

I must be doing it all wrong, throughout my life I always start with, how can I justify this expense, then when I have enough money I have to move quickly before we need a new dishwasher or lounge carpet.

Even as a child I'd go to my father in-law and say I've got ? 200, get me a tenor quickly before my mum finds out, back in the 70's that was a lot of money for me, although not a lot of money for instruments at that time. See the Chinese revolution!

If money wasn't a problem my guess is I would be heading off to Oxford's Allegro and trying every sax in the shop. As for mouthpieces, I would be advised by the experts in the shop, whom I have found to be very friendly and useful.

As for feel in the hands, if I was to grab my old Conn after playing any of my modern saxes, it would feel aweful. Whilst the tone of these old stagers are great, the action is not. Give me a modern sax any day, a beautifully balanced action modern instrument is a joy to play. Put another way, the limiting factor when playing and old instrument is the instrument, on a modern instrument its the musician.

Simon :laugh:

 

[Bobby G]

Pjonah wrote:

Put another way, the limiting factor when playing and old instrument is the instrument, on a modern instrument its the musician.

Simon :laugh:

The limiting factor is indeed the musician - as I'm a limited musician, playing an oldun won't make much difference, except I think I sound better. :laugh: but only a bit better

Cheers, Bob

 

[Rogerb]

"If money wasn't a problem my guess is I would be heading off to Oxford's Allegro and trying every sax in the shop. As for mouthpieces, I would be advised by the experts in the shop, whom I have found to be very friendly and useful."

They may be OK, if you say what they want to hear.... just don't mention Hanson(ultra-scornful response 🙁 ) or Lamberson (he never heard of Fred!)

 

[tris]

For me tone is the major consideration. I guess making music is supposed to be about making a beautiful sound so that what comes first.

My DG is not a free blower but I really dig that. Not a great legit sax but great for what I want. I when out and tried a load of saxes... ?6K MKVI, Adolf Sax, Keilworth, Yani, Yam, Conn, etc.

When I found the DG saxes I knew that was they one for me... it ticks all of the boxes. (my favorite ergonomics, tone, etc.) I could not imagine owning another alto... no sir. I had no cash to afford one at all but any B&S sax is worth checking out and when mine appeared i found a way to afford it.

I bought my Lambo of Roger... loved it form the first blow and I have not looked back.

Luck has a role to play....

 

[Bobby G]

Luck does indeed have a role to play. Both my Yamahas (YAS62 and YTS23) were ebay specials, and both suit me very well, which from what I've heard about other ebay horns is unusual. Even the Dolnet (Doreen the Dolnet?) is proving to be a winner after I admired it from afar for some time.

It's not only luck, it really is like the sax chooses you at times.

Cheers, Bob

 

[old_git]

Wanted some of the manufacturing/building costs to be British. That left me with a choice of three, Bentley, Trevor James and Hanson.
Bentley, could not get any reply to e-mail enquiries.
Trevor James, the rep didn't inspire me but mentioned pointed springs.
Hanson, who were responsive, enthusiastic and as a bleeding fingertip confirms, also possess this form of tensioning.
Realised from my other instruments that a good and trustworthy technician is a necessity. Luckily 'The Griff' is a 20 minute walk away, two days a week. Devon takes a bit longer.
Bill.

 

[jambo]

Rogerb wrote:
"If money wasn't a problem my guess is I would be heading off to Oxford's Allegro and trying every sax in the shop. As for mouthpieces, I would be advised by the experts in the shop, whom I have found to be very friendly and useful."

They may be OK, if you say what they want to hear.... just don't mention Hanson(ultra-scornful response 🙁 ) or Lamberson (he never heard of Fred!)

I agree with Roger. When I went there, they were very un-enthusiastic and sarcastic about the Dolnet... Not to mention the springer mouthpiece, all the could say about that was 'what you need is a Meyer for 70quid!' How helpful is that
😡

 

[tengu01]

Hey there Linky,

Try a few of the the best saxophones you can afford with a mouthpiece you already like the characteristics of. The response under your fingers will tell you. How it sounds and feels.

I found that on the tenor, an Otto Link STM 7 is a good all-round mouthpiece that comes with its own ligature (less additional factors to combine). So, if you have a chance to try saxes in-store a 2 or 2.5 vandoren reed.

Once you have the horn (theoretically the most expensive part), the rest is fine-tuning the reed/mouthpiece combination to get the best from your instrument. Worked for me with my first and second tenors 🙂

Good luck

 

[Pjonah]

Jambo wrote:

Rogerb wrote:
"If money wasn't a problem my guess is I would be heading off to Oxford's Allegro and trying every sax in the shop. As for mouthpieces, I would be advised by the experts in the shop, whom I have found to be very friendly and useful."

They may be OK, if you say what they want to hear.... just don't mention Hanson(ultra-scornful response 🙁 ) or Lamberson (he never heard of Fred!)

I agree with Roger. When I went there, they were very un-enthusiastic and sarcastic about the Dolnet... Not to mention the springer mouthpiece, all the could say about that was 'what you need is a Meyer for 70quid!' How helpful is that
😡

Blimey

I must of got them at Allegro on a good day! they were really helpful and knowledgeable! Heyho

Simon

 

[tris]

Bobby G wrote:
It's not only luck, it really is like the sax chooses you at times.

Amen to that! I bought a PRS guitar without playing it, and i did not blow my particular DG before parting with the cash (ebay but from Sax.co.uk) the only regret that i had was selling the PRS to buy the DG alto but that lasted for 10mins or so 😉

Something will come your way linky, something that makes you temporarily insane. A sax you would sell the shirt off your back to own.

When you find it you will just know.

 

[Linky Lee]

Oh I found it, the Yani T902 at sax.co.uk

but unfortunately youth and to some degree laziness didn't allow me to find ?1800 in a month or so before it was sold. I'm looking at other things that will suffice, I'm hoping this weekend I will find an alternative, It's either a Hanson or what may come my way this weekend.

I've played others but they were never as good.

 

[Rogerb]

See if you can get your hands on a Hanson ST-6, Linky..... if it's as good as they seem to think.... 😀

 

[Linky Lee]

You really want a review don't you 😛

I don't have any more expectation for it than the ST-8, I think it could well be worse actually, instead of starting from the ground up thinking what we need is a well designed sax which will resonate well and so on. Instead they've gone, this is a good saxophone basis, lets copy that and make some modernizations that should improve it.

The problem is no one understands how to make consistent saxophones, and therefore no one knows what makes a saxophone good or bad to enough detail to be able to say that these alterations and even exact replicas will be improvements or the same!

You've just got to find one that works for you. It could be a ?400 sax or maybe you're unfortunate and it's a 3K or more sax.

It's not up to you as Bobby say 😛

 

[Rogerb]

Just interested in the concept , really... I can't afford a 2k tenor, as well as my alto 😱