Tech/maintenance hazards of de-lacquering

[Simon]

Another vote for 'don't do it'... my old 10M was once silver-plated (looked grubby) with a gold bell wash. My over ambitious sax teacher at the time gave it to a electro-plating company.. exit the gold, in came the mould. And it lost a lot of weight.

:cry:

Simon

 

[daveysaxboy]

Well silver plated horn's are a different story i would think,i am a big fan off silver plate horn's ,have had 4 to date & my soprano now is one and all my horn's felt heaver to a lacuered sax so it would feel lighter if you took of the plate and i think you would feel & hear a small difference in ya sax but that's my opinion and my last sax was a silverplate selmer serie 3 which was a huge sound,a silverplate keilwerth alto in the past and as you see in my photo i had a 1962 silverplate mk6 tenor and to de plate a horn you must hear something,even if slight as plate is thicker.Lacuer is open to all are opinion's as we have proven on this thread,what we like eh,as my wife keep's saying:YA NEVER HAPPY:so true. 😉

 

[jools]

hmmm. Simon, exactly what benefit did the gold wash have on the sound? or was that cosmetic?

I ask, as I have been looking at possibly getting a good quality crook. They are sold with all sorts of claims with regard to the finish, made in everything from wood to gold. Do they lacquer silver plate?

Also, I've seen some very old saxophones - turn of the century stuff and before, which have quite clearly never been lacquered, and which never looked brown, green or otherwise. In fact I used to have a 1920's Selmer which was positively shining, and no signs of deterioration due to not having a plastic coat on.

 

[Linky Lee]

I don't really think anything you stick in terms on finish on the outside of a saxophone is really going to make a difference to the sound.

I've had silver plate, lacquer, 24K gold plate with lacquer over the top, saxes with most of the lacquer missing (worn out, not removed).

I don't think any of them had particular properties or alterations to the sound because of their finish. I think the internal dimensions are going to have much more of an impact because of the variation to the resitance the saxophone will give causing you to blow differently.

 

[jools]

I'm very blddy tempted to get one of my 'junk saxes' and paint it with Airfix enamel. Just to see what it sounds like afterwards.

 

[daveysaxboy]

Look's like were on the same wave length jool's'power to the bare brass brigade. 8)

 

[stephen_howard]

Jools wrote:
I ask, as I have been looking at possibly getting a good quality crook. They are sold with all sorts of claims with regard to the finish, made in everything from wood to gold. Do they lacquer silver plate?

The external finish will make no difference at all. The metal the crook is made of will make no difference either.
Silver plate isn't generally lacquered because this tends not to look quite as good as bare silver - and when the lacquer starts to peel off it looks truly awful.
Wooden crooks are slightly different, the relative roughness of the bore can have a small effect on the tone.

Regards,

 

[old_git]

Oh! Come on Stephen,
You, of all people along with Pete and Griff know that a small semi-precious stone set on the crook makes an amazing difference.





In price at least.

 

[onecat]

I forgot to add, that I will never try de-lacquering myself again. It's not worth the potential benefits... the brass can turn green or develop red corrosion spots. If a horn is original lacquer or good relaq leave it alone, I would say. But I did hear a tiny difference, which is why I guess new horns are sometimes sold without lacquer as an option.

 

[jools]

Stephen, thank you for your very scientific observations, and professional opinions. It's good to get something of a definitive argument on this 'hot potato' of a subject.

I have to say, that I go entirely for looks in this case, and have been converted by the idea that in the process of any stripping, the horn usually gets a 'tune-up' job anyway, so it's bound to sound different. If it falls apart.. hey ho, so be it.

In fact, to finally lay a lot of this to rest (in my mind at least) I have gone out and bought a fully painted horn (!). So far, from my tests (side by side) there is no difference (using the same mouthpiece) as the stripped horn. Certainly in terms of 'significant' differences, only what you might expect from two horns side by side. The heavily painted one does not sound 'muffled', 'dead', nor 'lifeless'. If anything, it's slightly brighter!...

The sound issue of de-lacquering is a moot point. I am not convinced.

 

[Rogerb]

The sound difference issue will probably rumble-on for ever, with very few, if any, changes of mind, whatever scientific tests may show.

It does surprise me that anyone prefers the look of tarnished brass to nice shiny instruments. My preference is for gold plate 🙂

One of the players in my teacher's band has an unlacquered, and apparently 'vintage' trombone ....it stands-out like a sore thumb on the stage, and not, IMO, in a good way 🙂 I've heard some puzzled comments from 'uneducated' members of the audience!

My teacher's 50+ yo MkVI, although looking tatty close-up, actually appears quite shiny under the stage lights!

 

[greg_strange]

I don't believe in de-lacquering or re-lacquering, let 'Mother Nature' takes it's course, if the lacquer comes off, it comes off, if it doesn't, it doesn't. I just believe in regularly maintaining the instrument to a high standard for playability ( plus annual check up) and cosmetic (polish the horn when it needs it with high quality non-abrasive furniture polish).
That's my 2p, 2c worth.
Regards,
Greg Strange.

 

[daveysaxboy]

Hey, me and my stripped horn's have had caused some chit chat which is a good thing,lot's of view's and high tech info but i would still do it all again and i still think they look better for it and each man to his own as they say so enjoy ya shiney sax's boy's and i will enjoy my smelly green horn!!!!!!ya dirty devil. 😉