Backing Tracks Having fun with backing tracks!

[Wade Cornell]

Wikiloops is toxic as hell as a site, in my experience.

Most amusing. So challenging yourself to play by ear and make your instrument a part of you is toxic?

Maybe it's only toxic to those who think a sax should be limited to a singe style/genra and the idea of being one with your instrument and able to play whatever you hear is a very bad thing? How extremely sad.

Oh, and the wikiloops site (which you don't need to visit in order to play the 300 tracks that are here) is evil because of all those fine musicians from all over the world cooperating and playing so many differet styles of music. Imagine that!

Once you're a full fledged fine musiciian (as mrblackbat is) you can decide/choose to play in just one style/genra. However it's questionable when such an individual so vociferously tries to disuade others from playing all of the great music styles of the past and present.

Pete Thomas has brought us a wonderful educational site that (IMHO) can and should promote our instrument of choice in its full spectrum of potential use.

If one checks the 300 wikiloops tracks (that are not that easy to find) you'll notice that they have been listened to more than a quarter of a million times. How toxic is that?

 

[progger]

Haha, speaking of backing tracks just noticed this.

View attachment 29620


Maybe a good time to remind everyone that descriptive (and more specific) titles would be helpful for the forum. 🙂

There do, indeed, seem to be... several... threads about, well, Backing Tracks. 😁

I know this isn't for everyone, but I personally really enjoy making my own backing tracks, and I've made dozens of them over the years. I have the advantage of being a composer/arranger/producer who works a lot with DAWs and virtual instruments professionally, which isn't necessarily the norm in the saxophonist community (although it's more common with younger folks), but even just Garage Band or Reaper with some freebie VIs will get the job done, and it's an excellent way to study the form of a tune. Just today I made one for Coltrane's lovely version of "Body and Soul" from "Coltrane's Sound," maybe I'll post a recording here at some point...

During the pandemic I was making quite a few videos playing along with backing tracks I'd made, including some collaborations. Here are a few that I think turned out ok... (And forgive me if you've seen these from when I posted them at "the other place.")

View: https://youtu.be/FiavIfVKnZw?si=mht-vtJ66PJOFpdM

View: https://youtu.be/Ds9HZetPicg?si=AwjoZCV7fJkfYDlt

View: https://youtu.be/-5iJqt23a9k?si=4PnK8rNjxGrPYdYR

 

[mrblackbat]

There do, indeed, seem to be... several... threads about, well, Backing Tracks. 😁

I know this isn't for everyone, but I personally really enjoy making my own backing tracks, and I've made dozens of them over the years. I have the advantage of being a composer/arranger/producer who works a lot with DAWs and virtual instruments professionally, which isn't necessarily the norm in the saxophonist community (although it's more common with younger folks), but even just Garage Band or Reaper with some freebie VIs will get the job done, and it's an excellent way to study the form of a tune. Just today I made one for Coltrane's lovely version of "Body and Soul" from "Coltrane's Sound," maybe I'll post a recording here at some point...

During the pandemic I was making quite a few videos playing along with backing tracks I'd made, including some collaborations. Here are a few that I think turned out ok... (And forgive me if you've seen these from when I posted them at "the other place.")

View: https://youtu.be/FiavIfVKnZw?si=mht-vtJ66PJOFpdM

View: https://youtu.be/Ds9HZetPicg?si=AwjoZCV7fJkfYDlt

View: https://youtu.be/-5iJqt23a9k?si=4PnK8rNjxGrPYdYR

Hadn’t seen these, Brian. Sounding great!

 

[sax panther]

I know this isn't for everyone, but I personally really enjoy making my own backing tracks

Yeah, this - I'm not always able to do it as my skill on rhythm section instruments is even lower than my saxophone skill, but the song of the month threads that I've found the most rewarding are the ones where I've felt able to record all the parts myself.

 

[sax panther]

Wikiloops is toxic as hell as a site, in my experience.

What was your experience on there?

 

[Ballymenaboy]

To be fair, nobody said that.

I totally do appreciate your viewpoint that you dislike the music you've heard on Wikiloops, but it makes me wonder whether you've heard a lot of it. There is a lot of rock music and blues on there that I would have thought you'd be into.


I'd like to thank Wade again for putting this together (and getting the necessary permissions from Wikiloops to allow us to host these tracks). It must have been an enormous effort to compile that list.

Perhaps we should start using some of these for SOTM, I get the feeling a lot of members are not aware of this section.

Some super backing tracks on Soundcloud and Wikiloops.not sure any can be classified as introvert..Spotify also has a lot of geat tracks for saxophonists.

 

[mrblackbat]

What was your experience on there?

There are folk that like to put people down in a non constructive fashion, making it personal and so on. Happened quite a bit.

 

[Wade Cornell]

There are folk that like to put people down in a non constructive fashion, making it personal and so on. Happened quite a bit.

I can't recall any instance where this has happened unless it was constructive criticism. The site is unusally positive and constructive.

I'd invite anyone to visit there (you don't need to be a member) and scroll through. You'll find it very difficult to find even constructive criticsm, much less any sort of negativity.

To my way of thinking someone who labels a place or people as "toxic" (as mrblackbat has done), where it's possible for anyone to examine this for themselves and find that it's not true is exhibiting the attitude he so negatively describes.

Check it our for yourselves... wikiloops.com

 

[Ghr9204]

I know this isn't for everyone, but I personally really enjoy making my own backing tracks, and I've made dozens of them over the years. I have the advantage of being a composer/arranger/producer who works a lot with DAWs and virtual instruments professionally, which isn't necessarily the norm in the saxophonist community (although it's more common with younger folks), but even just Garage Band or Reaper with some freebie VIs will get the job done, and it's an excellent way to study the form of a tune. Just today I made one for Coltrane's lovely version of "Body and Soul" from "Coltrane's Sound," maybe I'll post a recording here at some point...

I've taken a slightly different approach to rolling one's own backing tracks, that is the use of professional arrangers. Currently I have a Korg PS600 and PS1000. I like Korg, because their styles are more akin to a small combo or small band versus a full orchestra.Plus the intelligence does a good job with attacks, decays, etc.

Because of their ability to do Karaoke on the fly, I've at times used them to work out solos, practise in the quiet with headphones without bothering anyone. I purchased a better video camcorder than my older Fujifilm S9150 bridge camera. Its sound is OK for quickies but lacks some of the high fidelity. Am working on a circuit to drop the gain so I don't blow out the preamp on the camcorder input circuit.

Recently I've been working on "There Will Never Be Another You" to a built-in Disco Cha-Cha style. Drop the tempo from default 136 down to 109, do a Hammond like Organ intro improv. The Mariachi Trumpets do nice fill ins, which build with style level selected. Close out with an Organ improv.

Just need to complete the bits and pieces to make it work.

 

[thomsax]

To each thier own. Knowing what you like and makes you happy is a good thing. Some pople never want to leave their village, others travel the world. The post mentions having fun with backing tracks. Should that be limited to mostly playing the same tunes backing tracks? Well, I guess that's your choice.

However I have to question what's more "plastic" Are backing tracks that are standards made strictly for a lone player and either paid for, AI or band in a box somehow less"plastic" than totally original music? I think you've got that the wrong way around. Wikiloops is introverted? What can be more introverted than playing canned music by yourself? Wikiloops is about creative musicians reacting to and playing with each other via file sharing. Introverted is akin to NOT sharing music and literally "playing with yourself"... just saying...

Hopefully each of us enjoys whatever direction they take, whether its banging out the same tunes for your whole life or seeking to connect in a wider sphere. Respect to all of you.

Sorry if I've hurt you. I tried some Wikiloops blues and rock tracks out in the woodshed. They didn't come out well on my PA in the woodshed. I don't know how they are recorded but they just didn't sound good. If I write I don't like Wikiloops, is not an attack on you, Wade Cornell.

I like custom backing tracks. I can remove the vocals, sax (solo, filling ...), hornsection, guitars, strings ...... and add my own vocal, saxes ..... this is also my expanding tool box!?!?!

I have many so called backing tracks. I like when backing tracks are recorded with real instruments. Pete Anderson did some great backing tracks. Trying to play electric blues and Rock & Roll, Rock .... guitarr players have useful tips to play on sax.!

Here is some samples of Pete Anderson's backing tracks.

View: https://youtu.be/mbtychsBZKc?feature=shared

 

[Pete Thomas]

Sorry if I've hurt you.

It didn't seem like Wade was hurt, just surprised.

I don't know how they are recorded but they just didn't sound good.

I'd have to agree that there are some tracks on there that may not be recorded as well as we might like or are just not to everyone's taste. But there are so many I was able to find a lot that sounded pretty decent and useful. I'm going to recommend some to me my son who is learning guitar.

I think the whole concept of Wikiloops is amazing, ie getting people to collaborate and coordinate it all. Obviously you have to be selective and accept the sort of "democratic" approach of making it open to all.

TLDR: there is good and bad, you just have to sift through it.

 

[Wade Cornell]

Sorry if I've hurt you. I tried some Wikiloops blues and rock tracks out in the woodshed. They didn't come out well on my PA in the woodshed. I don't know how they are recorded but they just didn't sound good. If I write I don't like Wikiloops, is not an attack on you, Wade Cornell.

I like custom backing tracks. I can remove the vocals, sax (solo, filling ...), hornsection, guitars, strings ...... and add my own vocal, saxes ..... this is also my expanding tool box!?!?!

I have many so called backing tracks. I like when backing tracks are recorded with real instruments. Pete Anderson did some great backing tracks. Trying to play electric blues and Rock & Roll, Rock .... guitarr players have useful tips to play on sax.!

Here is some samples of Pete Anderson's backing tracks.

View: https://youtu.be/mbtychsBZKc?feature=shared

Pete is absolutely right. There's something like 300,000 tracks there, so it's not easy to find something that you might like. Thomsax is also right that we should just play whatever we like. Many times I'm making suggestions based on thinking about newer inexperienced players and giving them as many options as possible. That's from a standpoint of their learning approach being technically based and also developing thier ear. Learning to play by ear so that you can play tunes that you hear (known or unknown) is mostly ignored in favour of a strictly technical approach.

If players have a wide base of experience then they have the ability to decide what type of player they wish to be and what type of music suits them.

I spend an inordinate amount of time just finding tracks I'd like to add to. It's literally maybe one out of 200, so that takes a lot of listening. It's not a problem since I'm curious to hear other's creativity/ideas and musical abilities. Maybe 1/3 of my listeing is to Metal music. I'm not downloading or adding to it, yet find the very good players fascinating in their choice of harmonies, chornd structure and dedication to being able to play in that difficult genre.

It's too easy to just shut our minds to music that isn't already familiar to us and think of it as noise. There are great musicians in all genres, yet finding our place in what we wish to play is not necessairly the same goal.

The reward (for me) is in also having an audience for music that I've added to. Although Wikiloops is like a musican's cloister there are a lot of outside listeners and that number is growing substantially. I'm beginning to be surprised by how large those numbers are getting.

It's definitely not for everyone, yet if one doesn't know what's out there it's a way to potentially find out and at least start to explore what playing by ear may be about.

 

[Ballymenaboy]

I use Wikiloops regularily and find it a brilliant website for backing tracks cannot fathom how toxicity can be descriptive of it.

 

[thomsax]

Obviously you have to be selective and accept the sort of "democratic" approach of making it open to all.

I just want to play my saxes. I probably missed the global "democratic" thing. I'm too old for this.

 

[eb424]

I still like to play and sing with backing tracks. I know, it doesn't improve my creativity, but you can be creative in more than one way? Nowadays I just have fun with music. I just play and sing songs that I already know. The music should feel right for me. A nice melody, good lyrics, a fine and grounded beat ...... . My last attempt was "Just Like Starting Over" (John Lennon). I played the "Double Fantasy" LP a lot when it arrived in 1980. So many fine memories that come back to me when playing this LP. I try to play baritone, tenor and do some lead singing. No recording effects. I just sing into a microphone. The saxes are wo microphones.

This is what I do:

This song is in Concert A and that is my favorite key, so no need to change.

I use custom backing tracks so I deleted perc and strings. to get a more pure sound.

Then it's time to get the bari into the music. I deleted electric guitar 1 and all vocals. I got some ideas for the bari from the bass and electric guitar 2. The bari is in F#.

From the backing vocal I get ideas for the tenor fillings and the last 30 seconds (outro) I play the tenor. The tenor is in B.

And then it's just to sing it!!!

Is this any good? Of course not! Fun? Oh yes, very fun! A good way spend a week for an old man. I used to play drums as well but I gave away the drumkit for some weeks ago. And I also would like to pay homage to all CS members who know how to record music. Soo hard for me.

And thats not creative...how?? As long as you enjoy what you do who cares @thomsax. Backing tracks for me improve me as a player. Yes I have to play to the music sheet for now, but theres scope within the track for improv. This is my goal..Music has to be transposed, keys known, scales, music reading, etc. I think your playing by ear is so creative, my hats off to you.. Do you want to record. The offer is still there to meet for a blow out. We could try..or over a phone call. Its achievable for you to record if you want to..

 

[eb424]

I just want to play my saxes. I probably missed the global "democratic" thing. I'm too old for this.

To old for what @thomsax

 

[Nick Wyver]

I’ve dipped into wikiloops and had some very positive feedback. However, I’m finding myself increasingly irritated by the whole backing tracks thing. I’m sure I used to enjoy it but not any more. I think it’s the lack of real time interaction that bothers me. I’m lucky in that I’ve found a bunch of like minded musicians. The only downside is that it’s taken me over 50 years to do it.

 

[progger]

There is, of course, absolutely no substitute for playing with actual musicians, particularly the awesome kind... I wish I could snap my fingers and make three or four of my friends appear whenever I want to practice. 🙂 Tracks can be fun but there will never be a substitute for humans (no matter what the folks at Suno tell their shareholders).

 

[Wade Cornell]

I’ve dipped into wikiloops and had some very positive feedback. However, I’m finding myself increasingly irritated by the whole backing tracks thing. I’m sure I used to enjoy it but not any more. I think it’s the lack of real time interaction that bothers me. I’m lucky in that I’ve found a bunch of like minded musicians. The only downside is that it’s taken me over 50 years to do it.

Nick is so right. If i could be playing live all the time that's where I'd be. Unfotunately I live in relatiely remote areas, am old, and just can't do the 2 AM thing anymore. Next best is intereaction with real musicians, but alas... not in real time.

Cheers Nick.

 

[mrblackbat]

There is, of course, absolutely no substitute for playing with actual musicians, particularly the awesome kind... I wish I could snap my fingers and make three or four of my friends appear whenever I want to practice. 🙂 Tracks can be fun but there will never be a substitute for humans (no matter what the folks at Suno tell their shareholders).

Yeah definitely, my playing has come on leaps and bounds because I get to host my monthly jam session, with great pros in the rest of the house band.

There are things you can do with tracks that really musicians may not want to though. IReal Pro’s looping for instance, or repeats ad nauseum.