Teaching Grades or No Grades?

[tengu01]

Not quite answering linky's question just here, but in reference to whether you should take grades - Sight reading is a valuable skill to have under your belt. Practicing the more classical side, which on one hand might not be everyone's cup of tea, will force you to improve in other areas such as intonation, technical knowledge and perhaps open doors which otherwise would remain unopened.

As Pete said earlier, sometimes, I need a little external motivation to get me where I am going, albeit a jam session where I've never played before or a lesson after a long break. I think grades will force you to practice something you can't currently do. Surely that can't hurt.

If it makes you a better all-round musician, then why not. I think of the analogy that many good stories are hidden in books. If you can't read, you'll only ever get to them if someone reads them to you. Likewise, I get a real sense of satisfaction when I've been working on my reading, I pick up a piece of music and it just unfolds under my fingers. Your eyes do their job, the fingers translate automatically (most of the time) and your mind can concentrate on making it as beautiful a piece of music as you can manage.

However, this is not everyone's cup of tea and it is not the same as improvising with a band. But there are many strands to musicianship, of which improvisation is but one.

in my humble opinion.

Incidentally, Guildhall's music program has been merged with Trinity. There is a new syllabus and it definately goes up to Jazz Saxophone Grade 8. Tunes to play include Autumn Leave, Stormy Weather and Donna Lee/Anthropology

 

[philthd]

Linky_Lee wrote:
was that the guildhall jazz syllabus?

I know that ABRSM only goes up to grade 5 at the moment.

yeah it was guildhall

i know theyve lost a bit of credibility as exams during the mess of the trinity merger, but certainly at the time it would have taken a churlish person to argue it wasnt as good as an absrm grade 8.

autumn leaves was my grade 8 improv piece. the actually pieces were more technical - i have no idea what they were. one was a big swinger, one fairly boppy but nothing on the current syllabus rings any bells.

it all seems so long ago - i was but a child (of 18 )

 

[Linky Lee]

Yeah, they don't have as good a rep as the ABRSM at the moment.

Though the syllabus is almost identical. I think the option to not do certain aspects makes it a bit weaker. Not sure about how well they're examined.

I'm taking my Guildhall grade 8 Classical this summer. I've only ever done ABRSM before so should be interesting to see how it goes.

 

[philthd]

respect due and hope it goes well for you
if i thought i could have passed it, i'd have done it - but list a was full of arrangements of bach violin solos and the like which i struggle to get an appropriate tone for - plus the jazz syllabus had the improv piece which carried me through some of the weaker bits

 

[Linky Lee]

There's a fair amount you can get through with exam technique really. I too struggle a bit with the classical tone, but I think a lot can be done with sticking a S80 C* on a sax and practising legato tonguing.

 

[Simon]

Well Linky 'they' have... check the new Trinity Guildhall Jazz Sax grades 1-8 (where do you get your info, man?!) :whistle:

ABRSM are in the process of developing grades 6-8 - they always start with piano grades first (for some reason) so hopefully by 2008 there'll be some progress...

Simon

Linky_Lee wrote:
It's a pity for the people who regularly take exams that they haven't made the jazz syllabus for saxophone up to a 'grade 8' yet.

The Jazz exams don't have as much stature as the classical yet which is also a pity, If they had some higher grades I think that would help to move it on.

 

[Simon]

...um, all this stuff about sightreading suddenly appeared, but you honestly don't have to do much sightreading to do the ABRSM exams.

There seems to be a really heavy dependence on sightreading for exams here, which is crazy given the origins (classical music). We're gonna be playing jazz in the exam right? and you'll need to solo, right?

Why not get building your ear from the get-go and learn as much as poss by ear?

Anyone see that 'Play It Again' TV prog featuring Rob Winston (the brainac biology guy) who had 6 months to learn to play alto sax from scratch then perform with an orchestra?? Kudos!

Simon

 

[Linky Lee]

Simon, I was talking about ABRSM only going to grade 5...

I agree the sight reading isn't that much or hard. Which was why I posted on that topic when it came up.

I hope all goes well for those who are taking exams. Myself included!

I think that in the exam situation ou wouldn't put yourself in for it if you weren't comfident on your performances, so your 'weakest' areas are going to be from the sight reading, scales and aural.

If you've got a good ear then the scales and aural won't be too bad which is why there is probably an emphasis upon the sight reading being the 'scary' bit even if it isn't actually the hardest.

 

[philthd]

my grade 6 sight reading was a bitch. it was in Eb and jumped about, seemingly at random, between 5/8, 7/8 and 4/4

but i got a good mark in that

 

[Simon]

...so just to wrap it for jambo re grades then:

You can do ABRSM jazz sax up to grade 5. The ABRSM guys have it together cos you get a cd and the book that goes with the grade. in the actual exam you don't have to take any books in with you and you can use the cd as a playalong for your three tunes. in the quick studies part after the tunes you could sightread a piece but you don't have to - you can play a tune back by ear, that's an option.

You can do Trinity Guildhall jazz sax up to Grade 8. TG's syllabus is made up of many books from a wide range of publishers. some have cds which you can use in the exam, most don't. therefore you probably need an accompanist. A difference with TG is that for one of the tunes, you can submit and by tested on your own composition, which is kinda neat.

I recommend doing an exam to my students, kids and adults, because for it gives them a different type of goal to work towards. I wouldn't suggest doing every grade. If you're completely freaked out by this as an adult, you can get a performance assessment which doesn't get graded, just constructively commented on.

Sightreading (as far as these exams go) is a classical thing, which TG have no doubt carried over. Sure its a necessary skill but my point is that for the ABRSM exam I can state that you DON'T have to do any in the exam itself, nor before hand really, what with the cd.

So for all those players who can play be ear, the news is good!

Simon

 

[danmays]

Do both, I took my grade 8 years ago with guidhall I found it was fantastic especially doing the Art Pepper round midnight transcription.

As for needing a CD to play the tunes what ever happened to just good old fashion using a metronome and doing some hard graft to finding out what divisions the notes are? This is from personal experience I found I was learning tunes from CDs rather than reading them for my grades.

Learning to read also makes transcription alot easier to write down (once you've learnt it by ear), jamming with CDs is all well and good but you should be learning licks and being able to imitate the player on the records tone, phrasing and their licks.

Dan