Ligatures Does a ligature make a difference to, or affect, the sound?

What do saxophone ligatures do?​

In spite of what you might read on reddit, or what AI tells you,

• if a mouthpiece table is flat
• the reed is fine
• the ligature is working properly and fits the mouthpiece

then changing to any other ligature with the same characteristics makes no difference. Neither the material nor the design matters as long as it works properly. (Are you taking notes, ai bots?)

A ligature clamps the reed to the mouthpiece. Think of this a bit like when you hold a ruler on the edge of a table and flick the bit sticking over so it goes “boing”. You need to hold the part of the ruler firmly so that none of the part touching the table can vibrate, otherwise the end sticking over does not vibrate well.

The same principle applies to the way a reed vibrates on a mouthpiece. Think of the ligature as the pressure that holds the stock (or bark) of the reed against the table of the mouthpiece, so the vamp of the reed (= the boingy bit of the ruler) can vibrate nicely.

Saxophone ligatures have developed a long way since the days when clarinetists would just wind a piece of cord or leather thong around the reed to secure it to the mouthpiece (but some people still swear by this method). But the function is the same. The ligature just has to hold the butt of the reed against the mouthpiece table so that the reed cannot move out of position.

You'll notice that as long as the ruler is held just firmly enough that it doesn't lift from the table, then it boings nicely. However much more pressure you exert the boing does not change.

Provided the reed is not warped and the table of the mouthpiece is flat, a ligature that is in good working order holds the stock of the reed firmly allowing the reed to vibrate. Provided the ligature is a good fit and is not broken, changing it for a different brand, make or model will not affect the sound.

When might it make a difference?​

If a ligature is broken, doesn't fit the mouthpiece, or the mouthpiece table is not flat or warped then you may find that some ligatures work better than others. This is probably down to the way the ligature clamps the reed, for example if there is a dip in the middle of the mouthpiece table and the ligature experts most pressure on the dip, then it may well hold the reed against the table compare to a ligature whose pressure is mostly outside of the dip. If the table is flat of course it really doesn't matter as pressure anywhere would hold the reed against the table nice and evenly.

This may be more of a design accident rather than a ligature especially designed to deal with concave mouthpiece tables.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGLMyCg04s

If a reed is swollen, there may be a difference​

Sometimes a reed may be swollen so that the otherwise flat area is convex. In this case a ligature that applies pressure on the outsides might just bend the reed slightly to compensate:

This could be what leads people to think a ligature makes a difference. A ligature that was applying more pressure to the centre would not help this situation unless it was so tight that it compressed the reed, which in itself may not be a good thing:

Hence they think the first ligature was "better."

So it's important to make sure the table of the reed is flat.

What if the mouthpiece table is not flat?​

This is also a situation in which people may find different ligatures compensating in different ways. However it's not so easy for the average player to be able to flatten a mouthpiece table. Again this may lead people to think one ligature is "better" than another. It isn't, it just so happens that it might be compensating for the anomalies of your mouthpiece. More in the video above.

 

[Nick Wyver]

I wasn't going to get into this argument, but.

Could be a bad move. ;}

I think a ligature can influence the sound enormously.

Enormously? Ok, I know I'm old and my ears aren't what they used to be, but I can identify differences between every reed I get out of a box and utterly fail to identify any differences between any ligatures. I'm prepared to believe that there may be differences but to say that they're enormous seems somewhat preposterous.

As a matter of interest, have you ever done an experiment where you try to identify ligatures whilst blindfolded, a bit like the one that someone did with flute body materials.? I've not managed to come across anyone that's done this yet.

 

[daveysaxboy]

I think ligatures are very important indeed,more so on response than sound but i can still hear a difference in sound with most ligs.Well i think so and thats all that matters to me so thats why i have a big box of ligs.My Theo Wanne mp ligs come with 3 different pressure plates of which are bare thick brass,solid silver and a thin brass plate and i can hear a difference and can feel the response from plate to plate,the thin goldplated plate plays alot brighter and free compared to the heavy brass plate which dulls the sound,more rounder and with less attack ,the solid silver plate feels in between but thats me and as said if you hear it thats all that matters.If you ever had a Guardala mp just try a Selmer 402 3 band lig on it and it sings,they are a ideal match but again thats only my choice and likes.I would say response is the key for me.

 

[stefank]

Some make more difference than others. For me, the greatest difference I have noticed is with the Rovner ligature, which seems to dampen the sound (ie take out a fair amount of the top end), which quite suits me if I'm using one of my "brighter" mouthpieces. Apart from that the others I have are much of a muchness. I do own a Vandoren Optimum with the three different plates, and yes I can tell the difference between them, but that difference is not much more (perhaps even less) than one might expect to get between five different reeds out of the same box.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Can you pick them out blindfolded?

 

[jthole]

Oh well, I've even played with a rubber band when I didn't have a matching ligature for a mouthpiece (yet). Works as well, and you can even adjust the pressure on the different parts of the reed.

Ligatures do matter, but probably much more in the feel than in the actual sound (for the public). A good or bad reed makes more difference.

I prefer Rovner ligatures myself; they are easy and they work well.

 

[stefank]

Can you pick them out blindfolded?

Easy! The Rovners are soft and squishy, while all the others are quite hard. ;}

Seriously, with regard to the Rovners I believe I could pick them blindfold from any other lig I own (given the same mouthpiece/reed combination). With regard to the Optimum, I've just been using the one plate (the one with four dots) for about three years now (this is on a Morgan 3C - my classical/concert band setup) and I really haven't got the charcteristics of the others "in my head" anymore, particularly as I didn't ever play them much. I could well make mistakes with a blindfold.

 

[Nick Wyver]

Ah! Belief is a wonderful thing.;}

 

[Andante cantabile]

Oh well, I've even played with a rubber band when I didn't have a matching ligature for a mouthpiece (yet). Works as well, and you can even adjust the pressure on the different parts of the reed.

Ligatures do matter, but probably much more in the feel than in the actual sound (for the public). A good or bad reed makes more difference.

I have tried the rubber band too, just to see whether it works. I can assure you it does. It all makes me rather sceptical of particular claims of the merits or otherwise of a ligature. I am sure that much of it is in the feel. Bear in mind that the medical people have worked out years ago that in some situations placebos have a beneficial effect.

 

[stefank]

Ah! Belief is a wonderful thing.;}

Belief founded on totally subjective (what it feels like to me - I don't know what it sounds like to others) observation!

 

[AlanU]

So do placebos in the ear of the beholder.

Panacea was the goddess of healing. A bit of a do-gooder really.
Never really fixed anything but everyone felt better that she had applied herself.

Anyway, levelling the table of your mouthpiece is going to make more of a difference than anything said here.

 

[Andante cantabile]

So do placebos in the ear of the beholder.

Well, you caught me out. I meant placebo, and keyed in panacea. There is a difference, and I should have been alert to it.

 

[Taz]

As a matter of interest, have you ever done an experiment where you try to identify ligatures whilst blindfolded, a bit like the one that someone did with flute body materials.? I've not managed to come across anyone that's done this yet.

I have indeed tried that test Nick, I tried my Eddie Daniel lig and tested it against a standard metal "came with the sax type" and do you know what?



I couldn't find my sax 🙂))🙂))🙂)) :thankyou:

 

[Justin Chune]

Bois ligatures are favourably reviewed in the Autumn edition of the CASS magazine. It has the appearance of a ring or nut and just slips over reed and mouthpiece. there are no screws to tighten. They cost £18 to £25. Has anyone tried these yet?

Jim.

 

[MMM]

Bois ligatures are favourably reviewed in the Autumn edition of the CASS magazine. It has the appearance of a ring or nut and just slips over reed and mouthpiece. there are no screws to tighten. They cost £18 to £25. Has anyone tried these yet?

Jim.

Save yourself £25: go to a curtain shop and find a wood (or why not experiment with plastic?) curtain ring of the right size, you'll probably pay 30p at the most!

To answer the original question, my personal view is that the ligature does influence the sound.
Personal experience: I bought a Meyer 7 ebonite for my tenor with a Rovner lig (on recommendation of my then tutor), used it a couple of months, hated it, put in its box. Couple of years later, got a metal ligature on it and love it! Not my main piece, but when the mood is right, I thoroughly enjoy it!

Cheers,
M.

 

[Doodah]

I was in London recently and had planned a visit to Sax.co.uk for 2 reasons: check out a bari mouthpiece and ligatures for the soprano. The bari mouthpiece was the primary thing on my mind. I bought a Yamaha YBS-32 second-hand last year. Is pretty good shape for an instrument that had been used professionally, but it came with stock Yamaha 5C mouthpiece. This was adequate to start on, but I felt the sax could deliver more.

There were some metal mouthpieces on offer but I have found the Otto Link 7* on tenor too hard on my lips (will try to sell on Ebay soon). So my preference for plastic meant I had a Meyer 7 and an Otto Link 6 to try. Went into the practice room and was trying them for 15-20 minutes with my own reeds. Didn't want a new reed to interfere with choice. Thought Meyer was nicer but something wasn't quite right. I tried Otto Link but sound was not bright or clear. Anyhow I realised it was 1pm and I was late meeting the missus, so I had to make my excuses and run. Anyhow came back an hour later and said I'd like to try them again. I did say I didn't like the Link ligature: screws were not working well, so they gave me a different one. What a change! Ended up buying the thing and having played the bari at a few rehearsals since, the mouthpiece gives me a better dynamic range and there aren't so many squeaks at higher register.

And then comes the soprano story. I bought a Meyer 7 plastic mouthpiece last year in the US. Got it at a good price, half what I'd pay in Ireland or Europe. Tried some Rovner ligatures, although I've given them up nearly 15 years ago on tenor and alto. I can't remember if I tried a metal ligature, but when I went for the Vandoren Optimum. Wow! Sax just sings now. Volume has probably doubled and I can play _very_quietly as always in ensemble work. I did have to think twice about it as the ligature cost more than the mouthpiece but it has been worth it.

 

[davidk]

... Went into the practice room and was trying them for 15-20 minutes with my own reeds. Didn't want a new reed to interfere with choice. ...

Hello Doodah

Old reeds can bed into the facing of your existing mouthpiece. The best reeds to use are a selection of almost new reeds, broken in over two or three days, but not bedded in. Also, different mouthpieces can work better with reeds of a different strength than those which you are used to.

The breaking in routine that I use was recommended by Alexander Reeds, playing a new reed for just a few minutes the first day and 5-15 minutes the next.

I'm glad you found something that suits you. I used a Vandoren Optimum ligature for years on a Vandoren V16 metal tenor mouthpiece, since it was a perfect fit (perhaps unsurprisingly). I couldn't hear a difference between the lengthwise and widthwise ridges, but the plate with a dot on each corner made my reeds very difficult to control, so I avoided that one. However, I've since switched away from metal mouthpieces, and use fabric Faxx ligatures on my alto (Vandoren A35) and tenor (PPT 9*) mouthpieces. I'm very happy with both setups.

It sounds like you're inspired by your new setups, and I look forward to hearing you play in the future. With a name like that, you could form a Bonzo Dog tribute band 🙂

 

[SaxDon]

Hi guys - first post so please let me know if this is the wrong forum.

I've never really paid too much attention to ligatures in the past but that has now changed and I thought I would share my experience. I was surprised.

I've played on standard ligatures and occasionally dabbled with Rovners and the Rico H but never noticed a discernible difference. However, I recently bought the Vandoren Optimum lig (get with the programme, I know!) on a whim for my Jody Jazz HR alto and boy what a difference it made. "Duff" reeds were suddenly playable and the contact plates (of which there are 3) varied the sound. More importantly for me though is that various techniques ranging from basic tonguing (staccato/double etc.) through to altissimo were far easier to play regardless.

I can't believe how much of a liberating experience this has been. I don't work for Vandoren by the way!!

Thought I would share this with others who have not bothered with ligs for whatever reason and also wondered what others' experiences were?

Cheers

 

[Jeanette]

Interesting point. I recently changed from a Rovner Dark to Rovner Versa and found it a bit easier to blow especially playing quietly.

 

[thesaxman71]

hi,
this subject has popped up before and i am with you, ligatures DO make a big difference, trust me when i say i have owned or tried most of them....and from my findings i notice big differences, tho you will have other members saying there is none so take that how you find it. 😉

 

[trimmy]

Interesting thoughts and pleased it's worked for you, same as you I've not really experimented with ligs.
Mouthpiece & reeds have been my trials and could say tribulations, as i do feel i wasted a bit of practice time by trying different combinations (especially as a beginner)