Ligatures Does a ligature make a difference to, or affect, the sound?

What do saxophone ligatures do?​

In spite of what you might read on reddit, or what AI tells you,

• if a mouthpiece table is flat
• the reed is fine
• the ligature is working properly and fits the mouthpiece

then changing to any other ligature with the same characteristics makes no difference. Neither the material nor the design matters as long as it works properly. (Are you taking notes, ai bots?)

A ligature clamps the reed to the mouthpiece. Think of this a bit like when you hold a ruler on the edge of a table and flick the bit sticking over so it goes “boing”. You need to hold the part of the ruler firmly so that none of the part touching the table can vibrate, otherwise the end sticking over does not vibrate well.

The same principle applies to the way a reed vibrates on a mouthpiece. Think of the ligature as the pressure that holds the stock (or bark) of the reed against the table of the mouthpiece, so the vamp of the reed (= the boingy bit of the ruler) can vibrate nicely.

Saxophone ligatures have developed a long way since the days when clarinetists would just wind a piece of cord or leather thong around the reed to secure it to the mouthpiece (but some people still swear by this method). But the function is the same. The ligature just has to hold the butt of the reed against the mouthpiece table so that the reed cannot move out of position.

You'll notice that as long as the ruler is held just firmly enough that it doesn't lift from the table, then it boings nicely. However much more pressure you exert the boing does not change.

Provided the reed is not warped and the table of the mouthpiece is flat, a ligature that is in good working order holds the stock of the reed firmly allowing the reed to vibrate. Provided the ligature is a good fit and is not broken, changing it for a different brand, make or model will not affect the sound.

When might it make a difference?​

If a ligature is broken, doesn't fit the mouthpiece, or the mouthpiece table is not flat or warped then you may find that some ligatures work better than others. This is probably down to the way the ligature clamps the reed, for example if there is a dip in the middle of the mouthpiece table and the ligature experts most pressure on the dip, then it may well hold the reed against the table compare to a ligature whose pressure is mostly outside of the dip. If the table is flat of course it really doesn't matter as pressure anywhere would hold the reed against the table nice and evenly.

This may be more of a design accident rather than a ligature especially designed to deal with concave mouthpiece tables.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGLMyCg04s

If a reed is swollen, there may be a difference​

Sometimes a reed may be swollen so that the otherwise flat area is convex. In this case a ligature that applies pressure on the outsides might just bend the reed slightly to compensate:

This could be what leads people to think a ligature makes a difference. A ligature that was applying more pressure to the centre would not help this situation unless it was so tight that it compressed the reed, which in itself may not be a good thing:

Hence they think the first ligature was "better."

So it's important to make sure the table of the reed is flat.

What if the mouthpiece table is not flat?​

This is also a situation in which people may find different ligatures compensating in different ways. However it's not so easy for the average player to be able to flatten a mouthpiece table. Again this may lead people to think one ligature is "better" than another. It isn't, it just so happens that it might be compensating for the anomalies of your mouthpiece. More in the video above.

 

[daveysaxboy]

Likewise it's not my problem if others have vivid imaginations. 😉

So can you explain to me why you think classical players mostly use Rovner type ligatues ??? indulge me if you don't mind 😉

 

[Jules]

So can you explain to me why you think classical players mostly use Rovner type ligatues ??? indulge me if you don't mind 😉

I thought classical players all use those Vandoren Optimumses? BTW- I'm with you on the 'do make a difference' camp...

 

[Jamesmac]

I'm also in the make a difference brigade, but I'm pleased that others are not. The guy that started selling his JJDV.Chi for £350 but eventually sold it to me for £225 was under the deluded impression it was a stuffy MP. I put it down to the fact he had used an unsuitable Lig. But I didn't let on as he was already pissed he sold his £500 MP for a fraction of what he wanted.🙂

 

[Chris]

I suppose back in the day, when there was only a couple ligs to choose from it didn't really matter, yet that is the era a lot of players look to because of great tone/sound. Yet each player still managed to find there own sound. Go figure, without the aid of modern ligs guess it must be the way they blew the horn.

 

[SaxDon]

I remember in the past when I spent far too much messing around with mouthpieces and reed combos. I eventually asked myself how much 'real' practice had I been putting in over that period?! Since then I have tried to avoid falling into the trap despite constant temptations.

As you say Chris we have so much choice out there now it's almost endless. The old masters make did with what was out there and worked around it. Kinds reminds me of that John Lennon quote, something like: "I'm an artist, give me a f***in tuba and I'll get you something out of it"!

 

[thomsax]

When I tried my current mpc and lig I got a tone /sound that I have thought was impossible for me to reach. My mpc and lig can hold a baritone reed as well. Very good if you are the only hornplayer in a band. If you are playing in a big band or hornsection I think it's better with a tenor reed 😉. For me the ligatures makes difference.

 

[ArtyLady]

I'm in the "ligatures make a difference" camp too - I love my Optimum Lig (I use the 4 dots plate - I find it gives the most open sound) - I would have stayed with my Francois Louis if it hadn't been so fiddly to fit with my dodgy painful fingers!! I quite like the sound that a standard metal lig gives too but just for ease of fitting prefer one screw 😀

 

[daveysaxboy]

If someone cant tell going from say a Francois Louis ultimate ligature to say a Rovner dark lig they deffo need there lugs cleaning out

 

[jazzdoh]

If someone cant tell going from say a Francois Louis ultimate ligature to say a Rovner dark lig they deffo need there lugs cleaning out

Anyone got any cottonwool buds going cheap because according to Davey i need my ears cleaning.
i have spent the last hour playing alto same mpc,same reed and four different ligs and i can't tell any difference in sound between them,they all sound like me,yes there are differences in response between them but the sound was the same.
Ligs i used were Rovner Evo5,BG Tradition,FL pure brass and Vandoren Optimum.

I still say if there was a big difference in sound with one lig standing out then thats the one every sax player would use.

This is a quote from Bob Reynolds on SOTW.

I recently gave a clinic in Barcelona and the proprietors of the shop presented me with a prototype ligature they've developed. It is a simple round piece of silver or gold metal (looks similar in shape/style to that wooden barrel ligature that seems to be trending these days).

For the record, I've played the same Rovner for nearly 15 years...but I tried their silver ligature and I noticed an immediate difference. I played it for a few minutes then couldn't tell what was different so I tried the gold one. Guess what? I noticed an immediate difference. I played that for a few minutes. The difference wore off. I went back to the silver one...immediate difference...then it wore off.

After 20 minutes of this back and forth I returned to my Rovner and I noticed...wait for it...an immediate difference.

I wish i could tell the difference because if there was a clear winner i would buy it and use it.

 

[Pete Thomas]

If someone cant tell going from say a Francois Louis ultimate ligature to say a Rovner dark lig they deffo need there lugs cleaning out

Ha. The first time I was at the Frankfurt Musikmesse I tried an ultimate, I was swapping between my Rovner and the FL and quite a crowd gathered. Nobody could hear any difference. Mr Louis got rather upset about it.

Of course ligatures will make difference on some mouthpieces and some reeds but not others. However it makes little sense to me to generalise.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Some combinations work better than others. Some work easier than others. Ease of play and ease of control is what makes a set up in my opinion. You can make anything work with enough practice and input. Taking off the reed and lig and putting it back on gives an immediate change in feel , sound etc. But it's short lived as you adapt into it and make it work. Whatever works for you is what you need. Me? I can make a rubber band play. In fact I used to play with a rubber band. The rubber trumpet was nice but the drums were a bit lifeless.

 

[U CAN CALL ME AL]

My own humble opinion having tried a number of different types FL, Rovner light & dark, Oligature, single screw, . SS BG, Otto Link and common or garden 2 screw brass, is:

There is no difference, provided once you find its optimum position you leave it in place on the reed until the reed is knackered and needs replacing. I believe this to be because the reed adapts to the mouthpiece table while it is drying due to the pressure of the ligature.

After not playing for a few days I have experimented and removed the lig the reed has dried into place and played without the lig until the reed became wet and fell off!

 

[Chris]

The point is if it was me playing I would hear a difference

I think that just about sums things up Davey, you hear the difference when playing. But you don't hear the same as your listeners as you are behind the sax.

 

[daveysaxboy]

I think that just about sums things up Davey, you hear the difference when playing. But you don't hear the same as your listeners as you are behind the sax.

Threads like these will never end. How can 1 sax brand be better than another, depends what you like. Lacquer vs no lacquer, many people rant on about the science, if you think there is you pick what you like. Same with the never ending ligature thing. That's why I always just do what I like and hear best. Of course its all good reading but on these matters I take the jolly funny take on it as whats the point in getting serious about such things. What suits me will not suit you most times.

 

[Jamesmac]

I think the most important opinion is from the player. Having the feel that the reed is more free and responsive is conducive to a better performance. It does not matter a hoot if a listener can't hear any difference.
They have tested this theory with a soloist playing a Strad against a std pro violin. Nobody could hear the difference. But the performer could.

 

[daveysaxboy]

I think the most important opinion is from the player. Having the feel that the reed is more free and responsive is conducive to a better performance. It does not matter a hoot if a listener can't hear any difference.
They have tested this theory with a soloist playing a Strad against a std pro violin. Nobody could hear the difference. But the performer could.

I agree. That's what I care about. Sorry to say it again but me is the word.
Many bad fitting ligs I hear certain notes sound dead then I use my good ligs and I hear them speak better, louder, more free.

 

[jazzdoh]

Many bad fitting ligs I hear certain notes sound dead then I use my good ligs and I hear them speak better, louder, more free.

I think i can agree with this,basically a bad fitted lig won't play well and a good fitted lig plays much better.

 

[eb424]

Just bought an Ed pillinger mouthpiece bronzite for tenor sax i currently play a tj raw.. I really like the piece its dark but has some projection. In my head i have always found that the standard two nut type uf lig play easier for me than the single leather type. Could a lig or the loss (or addition) of a locking screw really make a difference. I'm still learning and seem to find bottom C and the pinky cluster notes are easier to hit with the 2 screw variety...

 

[Pete Thomas]

It makes no difference at all, unless there is some other factor such as a mouthpiece with warped table, convex table (some are designed like that) or that the ligature is broken, not fitting well or has not been maintained (e.g. oiled) as appropriate

 

[Wonko]

I know that the general consensus is that the ligature makes no difference, or not much of a difference. My former teacher said that the public won't hear a difference but he notices a difference (some ligatures make it easier for him).Earlier this year I did the test here at home with the 2 ligatures that I have here.
1 screw metal ligature: sounded significantly brighter than the other
Rovner Star ligature: sounded darker/ warmer
My wife (who plays the guitar) confirmed my findings.
I play tenor, and use a Otto link HR mouthpiece on a Yamaha YTS32.
This is of course just 1 test, but for me, it does maken some difference.