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Discussion re BOTM/SOTM and beginners

OP
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cannot make either encouraging or discouraging comments so you never know what they think so does it matter?
I confess my opinion is to keep one thread and the beginners, the nervous and the shy tag their posting "beginner"
The thing is, beginners very rarely if ever post in these, I am trying to find a way of encouraging them to do so, I thought if their threads were invisible to Joe Bloggs it would help
 

Pete Thomas

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cannot make either encouraging or discouraging comments so you never know what they think so does it matter?
I confess my opinion is to keep one thread and the beginners, the nervous and the shy tag their posting "beginner"
The thing is, beginners very rarely if ever post in these, I am trying to find a way of encouraging them to do so, I thought if their threads were invisible to Joe Bloggs it would help
I agree it would be good to get more beginners to post sound clips but I'm also not too sure about whether the fact that people not logged in can't see the posts would make much difference.

If the scariest thing is getting someone giving criticism, then that can only happen when logged in people can see the post and listen.
 
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OP
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I agree it would be good to get more beginners to post sound clips but I'm also not too sure about whether the fact that people not logged in can't see the posts would make much difference.

If the scariest thing is getting someone giving criticism, then that can only happen when logged in people can see the post and listen.
I don't know what it is, but if they think the whole world can see them it may be a bit of putting,. By the way, i am only making these suggestions to try and help the beginners here on the café,. Maybe one or two will come forward and tell us why they don't post. When I hosted the BOTM some came close but didn't quite make it
 

randulo

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I probably should be more shy about posting my recordings, I know they're not going to match anything from the many here who have played for tens of years. However, and this is my main point, this site is 99% positive and insult-free. I have received nothing but encouragement and honest, helpful advice. I just noticed the post above this one, and I'm doing the opposite, telling you why I do post recordings :)
 
OP
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By the way, i am only making these suggestions to try and help the beginners here on the café,
@Pete Thomas I have just read this again and realised it didn't come across very well, it sounds a bit selfish, I am fully aware of how much effort yourself and others put into to the café. so please accept my apologies
 

Zugzwang

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[....]Maybe one or two [beginners] will come forward and tell us why they don't post. [...]
Okay - This is a big problem for me, because I can't afford to take more than the very occasional lesson, and badly need the feedback, but I find it hideous to listen back to myself playing, let alone ask anyone else to spend their precious time on my ****.
I feel as if I have invented a time machine of sorts: - I don't get any better, but when I listen to recordings of myself, they get worse and worse. I started by recording myself (just on my phone) at first once a week, then once a month, then once every three months, now I've more or less stopped.

I recently joined a online teaching site, but am not taking advantage of the offer to have my playing critiqued by sending in recordings - I think for fear of being told to take up knitting!).

It was extremely difficult for me to return to playing, both physically and mentally, and I am troubled by the: "if it stops being fun, then give it up" attitude which I occasionally come across. So I do want to generally say to the self-critical and nervous out in Cafeland: Some things are wonderful despite of, or maybe even because they're so extremely difficult. I'm never in my life going to play a one octave of a C Major scale without hearing something that could be improved, but hey, that's life.
Personally, I don't think a Beginners' Corner will change things - people can say what they want others to know about any recording they post, and the Cafe environment is extremely supportive in general.

I'll post one day, promise:optimistic:
 

Pete Thomas

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Personally, I don't think a Beginners' Corner will change things
This is making me think now perhaps we should ditch the beginners corner, or rather ditch the concept bps it only being viewable to logged in members.

It would certainly be better for the Cafe (Search engine visibility) if it was public.
 

BigMartin

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Okay - This is a big problem for me, because I can't afford to take more than the very occasional lesson, and badly need the feedback, but I find it hideous to listen back to myself playing, let alone ask anyone else to spend their precious time on my ****.
You need to get past that feeling. Try to be as kind to yourself as you would be to someone else at your stage of development. You are where you are with your playing, just like the rest of us. You're not where you'd like to be (yet), just like the rest of us. And you never will be, because, as soon as you get there, you want to be even further on. You have to learn to love the journey, because that's all there is.
I feel as if I have invented a time machine of sorts: - I don't get any better, but when I listen to recordings of myself, they get worse and worse.
Good, Then your ear is getting better and you're picking up more of the shortcomings in your playing. And once you can hear them (so much better than just being told about them by a teacher) you can start to work on some of them. Pick something out (time, tone, intonation, whatever) and work on it every day for a few months. It can hardly fail to get better.
I started by recording myself (just on my phone) at first once a week, then once a month, then once every three months, now I've more or less stopped.
Try doing it every day, if only for a minute or two. Then it becomes a normal part of your routine. Keep the old.recordings and compare the current ones wioth the old ones from time to time. You might surprise yourself.
 
OP
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Okay - This is a big problem for me, because I can't afford to take more than the very occasional lesson, and badly need the feedback, but I find it hideous to listen back to myself playing, let alone ask anyone else to spend their precious time on my ****.
I feel as if I have invented a time machine of sorts: - I don't get any better, but when I listen to recordings of myself, they get worse and worse. I started by recording myself (just on my phone) at first once a week, then once a month, then once every three months, now I've more or less stopped.

I recently joined a online teaching site, but am not taking advantage of the offer to have my playing critiqued by sending in recordings - I think for fear of being told to take up knitting!).

It was extremely difficult for me to return to playing, both physically and mentally, and I am troubled by the: "if it stops being fun, then give it up" attitude which I occasionally come across. So I do want to generally say to the self-critical and nervous out in Cafeland: Some things are wonderful despite of, or maybe even because they're so extremely difficult. I'm never in my life going to play a one octave of a C Major scale without hearing something that could be improved, but hey, that's life.
Personally, I don't think a Beginners' Corner will change things - people can say what they want others to know about any recording they post, and the Cafe environment is extremely supportive in general.

I'll post one day, promise:optimistic:
It's good to get your thoughts,. Maybe if you posted a random recording of yourself you would get the equivalent of a free lesson out of it. There's lots of very knowledgeable people here that would give you some good pointers and I'm sure everyone would be happy to listen to you
 
OP
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This is making me think now perhaps we should ditch the beginners corner, or rather ditch the concept bps it only being viewable to logged in members.

It would certainly be better for the Cafe (Search engine visibility) if it was public.
It would be good to hear some other points of view
 

randulo

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I'm tempted to launch into a long philosophical post the ilk of which I'm sort of famous for.... but I'll just leave a few thoughts.

On the online exchange issue, I am on one of those now and I have done it on another instrument. I can tell you without any hesitation that, at least at Artistworks, the teacher, a world famous player, will give you insights regardless of your level. They are used to beginners and people who aren't confident with their level. They are there to help. Usually your fellow students will also be supportive. Like here at the Café, it would be rare that anyone would be mean enough to tell you to "keep your day job". Use the service you're paying for and use the chance to post free here.

On posting here at the café, you should do it, you will get free advice and again, no one is going to discourage practicing and playing, they will give suggestions and even these can be taken or left, but it is insight into how to improve. I personally urge everyone to post to SOTM/BOTM if you are capable of learning the songs. The study materials and backing tracks are there, you'll never have a better chance to get it out there.

This is my opinion, I have a think skin and know what I like to hear. What I hear as faults, I'm sure everyone else hears, too. Some will look beyond those faults, and I myself do that knowing I will get better for it.
 
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Colin the Bear

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Some times the faults are what makes a piece interesting. Remember that there's as much goes into a recording as learning the piece you're recording. A decent mic and how to massage the recording with effects is all part of the process. Recording your efforts on a phone is always going to be disappointing. I don't think I have ever been satisfied with my playing or recordings. I don't record to be good. I don't play to be good. I just let the music out before it addles my brain.
 

randulo

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"Massage thé recording?" How dare you, sir!

Yes, I add a taste of reverb. What Colin says is true. Do many takes to get it right, listening to them and hearing the mistakes is very beneficial. Phones are wonderful technology, but they won't produce a good recording to share. You need a mic and a way to edit.

Here is some excellent advice from Martha Graham:

 
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OP
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Some times the faults are what makes a piece interesting. Remember that there's as much goes into a recording as learning the piece you're recording. A decent mic and how to massage the recording with effects is all part of the process. Recording your efforts on a phone is always going to be disappointing. I don't think I have ever been satisfied with my playing or recordings. I don't record to be good. I don't play to be good. I just let the music out before it addles my brain.
I would have thought that a raw recording without any effects would be a better idea if you are looking for some constructive criticism
 

randulo

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Only if you overuse effects. We're used to hearing music a certain way. A little verb won't change your sound or technique significantly, it just puts the recording in a context comparable to all the music you've heard all your life. On the other hand, if it's a lesson, I'd agree, probably best to leave it at a good mic.
 
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