Saxophones Conn 150th Anniversary Alto Saxophone

[PigSquealer]

Four pages on this... and it's an alto.
An alto...

@jazzdoh ”
Whats wrong with it being an alto, I love the alto, played mostly alto for the last 30 years, but I wouldn't buy this one at that price, it's probably $2000 overpriced, but if they sell I bet there will be a tenor on the way.”

@Grumps is probably disappointed it’s not a C Melody 🤣

 

[PigSquealer]

Per Yandex A.I.:
Saxophone engraving is typically done at the end of the manufacturing process. This stage follows the assembly of the body, which includes fastening the plate assemblies that support the keywork and accessories to the neck, body, bow, and bell. After the engraving is completed, the keywork is attached to the instrument, and each key is individually adjusted and checked for leakage. 1 2

5 sources​

1. yamaha.com 1
2. selmer.fr 2
3. wikipedia.org 3
4. saxproshop.com 4
5. sax.co.jp 5

@ESJohn is the Conn authority on this subject. Review his site for more information.

About Us - CONNsortia

The mission is simple. Collect images of every single saxophone engraving Conn has ever made.

connsortia.site

 

[turf3]

Per Yandex A.I.:
Saxophone engraving is typically done at the end of the manufacturing process. This stage follows the assembly of the body, which includes fastening the plate assemblies that support the keywork and accessories to the neck, body, bow, and bell. After the engraving is completed, the keywork is attached to the instrument, and each key is individually adjusted and checked for leakage. 1 2

5 sources​

1. yamaha.com 1
2. selmer.fr 2
3. wikipedia.org 3
4. saxproshop.com 4
5. sax.co.jp 5

OK, how much do you think it would cost to ship by truck freight 40 saxophone bodies?

 

[PigSquealer]

hope it’s a precursor to them actually bringing the Conn name back. More good saxophones equals more better world.

From the Kessler site there’s a hint of bringing the brand back.

To all. The questions about quantity and investment are also noted here.

 

[Ghr9204]

@ESJohn is the Conn authority on this subject. Review his site for more information.

About Us - CONNsortia

The mission is simple. Collect images of every single saxophone engraving Conn has ever made.

connsortia.site

Thanks!

Regarding gaps in information, this is due to CONNodontophoridia because of the CONNodonts.
(I am being facetious with this CONNtent! Please ...) 😉

 

[PigSquealer]

What, pray tell, is the "all this effort" of which you speak?

They designed up some wire key guards to fit the existing mounts of sheet metal guards. They had the CNC lathe program for the neck tenon changed to put a taper. They designed a new neck key and neck receiver. They had someone draw up an engraving pattern, and they selected a pseudo-antique pseudo-patinated finish treatment. And they're having buckets of keys shipped to Elkhart for final assembly, which is probably 4-8 man-hours of work at an imputed labor+overhead rate of $100 at most, offsetting 4-8 man-hours of work at an imputed labor+overhead rate that's probably on the order of $50/hr. (For those who don't want to calculate, that means a probable cost increase of $200 to $400.)

It's very cheap to do these things. I'd roughly estimate the manufacturing cost increase over the standard hown at no more than $1000 per unit. Probably it's a lot less. The NRE costs (non recurring engineering costs) i.e., design work, tooling, etc. would probably be less than $20,000.

The "Effort" of which you speak is primarily advertising and marketeering.

I rather doubt that this horn is "substandard". I expect it has very much the same design, fabrication, and assembly quality of the average good quality Chinese or Taiwanese instrument - which can be very good indeed. But it's not something special except in its cosmetics.

If the manufacturing cost of the average good quality Chinese or Taiwanese instrument is, say, $1000, and this one is $2000, and they increase their average selling price from $3000 to $6000, that means it'd take them ten unit sales to recover the entire cost of the project.

This is exactly why mature consumer product companies owned by private equity who have no interest in or ability to do actual product development, LOVE LOVE LOVE "Special Edition" products. A bit of inexpensive NRE (probably outsourced), an ad campaign, minimal changes to the product itself (mostly cosmetic), and if you sell a handful you've paid for the product, and every one after that's just profit.

So,

"New Look! Same Great Product!"

The fact that Conn-Selmer is taking on a bold attempt to return is very honorable. How it’s made AND marketed is a big gamble.
Looking at the finished product I like what I see. Yeah, lots of details could be different.
As you’ve mentioned above there’s a lack of what really makes this special. That’s IMHO a complete failure of the marketing department not understanding the potential customers.

FWIW it takes about 40 hours of labor to build an alto or tenor with skilled labor. Raw materials to finished product. A weeks labor in Vietnam averages $138 USD. Taipei +/- $507 USD/wk. Add 12lbs raw brass from Bach. $20k in R&D. $20k in tooling for special needs.
I’m guessing net production cost @ $2760.80 ea. on 40 units. Normal 32% margin Mfg to retail ($883.45) $3,644.25. Retail needs a normal 42% markup ($1530.58). $5174.83 list ? What am I missing ? Short on startup ?
If they put $110.4k in. The ROI is $145,770 @ Mfg.
Please crunch some numbers and see what you think.

 

[ESJohn]

@ESJohn is the Conn authority on this subject. Review his site for more information.

Nope. Not me. I think you are referring to someone else.

 

[PigSquealer]

Nope. Not me. I think you are referring to someone else.

Oops 🤦
Sorry about that.

 

[Jimmymack]

D'you know, I quite like it, I even like the way it looks with that moth eaten, faux aged finish and wonky engraving. But I don't want an alto anyway, I'm with Grumps on this, and I don't want a tenor version either and I certainly wouldn't pay that much or expect to to get good value for that that amount of cash.

In the end there are so many other glamour offerings around in the world, clothes; watches, jewels, food, handbags, cars, toilet rolls usw, that are all overpriced like this that could offend me more and I really don't think it's worth all this fuss and in the end I don't care, I'll never see one, play one or buy one. If there are 40 people out there who want it so bad then good luck to them I hope they are happy with their purchase, other than that I don't give a damn.

 

[ESJohn]

Oops 🤦
Sorry about that.

No problem! I like to have people think that I am smarter than I am in fact!

 

[PigSquealer]

D'you know, I quite like it, I even like the way it looks with that moth eaten, faux aged finish and wonky engraving. But I don't want an alto anyway, I'm with Grumps on this, and I don't want a tenor version either and I certainly wouldn't pay that much or expect to to get good value for that that amount of cash.

In the end there are so many other glamour offerings around in the world, clothes; watches, jewels, food, handbags, cars, toilet rolls usw, that are all overpriced like this that could offend me more and I really don't think it's worth all this fuss and in the end I don't care, I'll never see one, play one or buy one. If there are 40 people out there who want it so bad then good luck to them I hope they are happy with their purchase, other than that I don't give a damn.

I love showing up at a car event with my ‘66 clunker. I haven’t seen another in years. Fellow enthusiasts enjoy different, but a newer $400k GT40 gets little attention.
The money’s out there for tool or toys.

 

[Ghr9204]

Kessler & Sons, Inc. wrote:

So why make it a Limited Edition only?​

The CONNfirmation was designed and built as more of a prototyping concept for the upcoming reintroduction of the Conn brand to saxes in the market. Prototyping a new design requires immense time, effort and expense to do. With this sax, Conn was developing the bore concept and feature sets to be utilized in the eventual release of the new Conn models. While we do have some inside information on these new models, we cannot share them yet – pinky swears are legally binding in the music industry after all! However, the acoustic elements designed for these horns were just too impressive to NOT let get out on the market. So that is what Conn has decided to do in this release of the Limited Edition CONNfirmation model alto sax.

I re-looked at your post today again - Today at 2:14 PM, @PigSquealer , then went back to Kessler's description on the sax page. So, this limited edition is their special project and introductory announcement. This tells me that what will follow most likely will be less expensive during production. Also, they will offer standard lacquer finishes in the mix, maybe sans or with limited engraving, maybe numerically generated / laser etchd or none, which of course would reduce costs.

Each horn as a limited edition number on them – but get ready for a little wonkiness… there are only 40 that are being released on the market, but the series numbering (marked on the bell to bow band) will be in an xxx/150 format! So even though there are only 40, the series indicates that there are 150 – but there never were! Only 40. So we have numbers 40, 43 and 61.

The fact they have a #61 leads credence that there is more in this production, but only 40 are for public sales. There was a photo of one finished with a silver bell that may not be of these 40? The prototypes are included in the numbering? And, like I mentioned before, demonstrator models are in addition to the 40?

As time proceeds, more facts will be revealed.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Nope. Not me. I think you are referring to someone else.

See:

Saxophones - CONNsortia - a new website dedicated to Conn saxophone engraving

Hello all, Recently i was Googling around the interweb, looking for a single site dedicated to cataloging all of the amazing Conn saxophone engravings. Having found no one site that really tried to create a gallery of all the engraving art, I decided to build it and make it my ongoing project...

cafesaxophone.com

@motteatoj

 

[thomsax]

What there is, though, is a very cynical marketing ploy to appeal to people that are nostalgic, by applying some branding and bling to what looks to be a very average sax, then selling it for a ridiculous price.

Marketing of saxes and accessories is often tasteless. It was worse back then ...... .

 

[Targa]

For an expensive present for myself I would rather have bought one of these.

BENTLEY NEWSROOM : Speed Six

The Speed Six, widely recognized as Bentley's most successful racing car to date, holds an esteemed position as one of the most important Bentleys in history. Now, we proudly present the newest addition to this legendary lineage: Speed Six Car Zero.

www.bentleymedia.com

Only two million pounds but unfortunately all sold.

 

[jazzdoh]

For an expensive present for myself I would rather have bought one of these.

BENTLEY NEWSROOM : Speed Six

The Speed Six, widely recognized as Bentley's most successful racing car to date, holds an esteemed position as one of the most important Bentleys in history. Now, we proudly present the newest addition to this legendary lineage: Speed Six Car Zero.

www.bentleymedia.com

Only two million pounds but unfortunately all sold.

All that money and you don't get a roof.
Beautiful though.

 

[thomsax]

A snappy Conn sparewheel cover on the Bentley could be a very effencient communication. Easy and no offending message ..... ! Picture from the book "Celebrating the Saxophone", Paul Lindemeyer.

 

[Digger2054]

If they had brought this horn out at $3500 they would all be gone now. (Maybe they are anyway…) I really think the outrageous price is the driver of these ConnVersations. It’s why everyone is having a Conniption fit.

Even that would potentially be a bit steep, when true "vintage American" horns are available for less?

I'm not against the Conn name making a return, but IMHO they've missed the mark... drop the BS, it's a modern horn with vintage aesthetics, potentially improved ergonomics, and by the looks of it improved mechanism regards adjustment... yes maybe a different sound to other horns.

I'm rather cynical, they're numbered xxx/150, perhaps there were intentions for a larger run, and only a small % made the cut, and call it a 'special edition', and charge a premium. 150 serials, 150th anniversary, it would make sense?

 

[jonf]

Marketing of saxes and accessories is often tasteless. It was worse back then ...... .

This is very true. However, it's not the lack of taste that makes this one look so ridiculous. It's purely selling on the basis of historic success, rather than current merit. The sellers are basically saying 'We used to produce some nice saxes, so now, on the basis of that history, you should buy this overpriced mediocre one'

 

[Woodpad]

This is very true. However, it's not the lack of taste that makes this one look so ridiculous. It's purely selling on the basis of historic success, rather than current merit. The sellers are basically saying 'We used to produce some nice saxes, so now, on the basis of that history, you should buy this overpriced mediocre one'

I think it is a bit cruel to celebrate the Conn brand with a Conn stenciled saxophone. Just as when Holton cashed in on the devils horn sentiment with the 666 alto. While we all know that the devil plays violin as main instrument. Still seven pages of comments here. Marketing will be thrilled by that. Curious how they will celebrate a Buescher anniversary. Maybe a stenciled Brazilian bari to low G to reach 20 pages?