Saxophones C Melody Saxophones

[lydian]

Nice horn. Any idea what these two keys do?

 

[lydian]

I figured @PigSquealer could just follow the linkages and see what they do. Any guesses from anybody else? Maybe one is a G# trill typical of other vintage horns. But that top one is a mystery to me.

 

[turf3]

I think the lower one (close to the side F#) is a G# trill and the other one I think is for high D.

I'd like to see some explanation of the rationale for the G# trill keys that hung on and hung on. Were people in the early 20th century equipped with non-functional left hand little fingers? Seems like pianos and flutes would rule out that possibility. I have two horns with that key (1946 and 1950 Conns, which surely must have been amongst the last ones so equipped) and I swear I've never seen the least benefit from them. The fork Eb I understand - it eliminates the slide from low C to Eb; I can see a high D trill because holding down a left hand stack key and wobbling to the high D key is troublesome; but I haven't been able to figure out the fingering or pattern that would be more easily fingered with the G# trill.

 

[Tuppertn]

The lower one is a G# trill. You can see the rest of the linkage to the G# cup here...

The upper one shares a rod screw with high E. You can see where it ends up in these pics off Reverb...

So what is that? High D to Eb trill, maybe?

 

[lydian]

Yeah, I think you guys are right, lower one is G# trill, and upper is Eb trill. Two things I never knew I needed. Maybe they trilled much faster in the old days and pinkies and palms didn't cut it. It's interesting to see all the improvements which were tried but never caught on.

 

[PigSquealer]

Nice horn. Any idea what these two keys do?
View attachment 36297

 

[lydian]

So on the C-D trill, I guess you finger a C, keep your middle finger down, and trill to D with the C-D trill key. I admit that would be tricky without that key. That also explains why the hole is higher than D but lower than Eb to account for the under-venting caused by the C. Fascinating. Thanks for digging that up!

 

[Greychatter]

I want a C Melody overhauled as backup to my '23 Conn by Mr. PigSquealer. The '23 is perfection but for the infamous Conn "warble" at low Bb/B. I play through it, but I'd prefer a horn without. Help me choose from two unplayable LP candidates. (1) Conn '25 NW Series II in original condition with 95% silver plate. It's missing a few springs, has a shallow dent on the upper profile of the bow, but all rollers are rolling free. Has an alto style neck with a microtuner that turns, and RTH. It needs cleaning, polish, pads, lube, cork, the works. (2) 1916 Buescher stencil for Selmer NY. Original petrified pads and totally dent free with 95% silver plate. Many springs are missing, a couple of rods are stiff but not frozen solid, and all rollers roll. Consider: (1) I favor vintage Conns. (2) I want a warble-free C Mel. (3) Assume both are roughly equal cost to resuscitate. (4) I play mostly 6M alto for my dogs, community band, and church. The C Mel is for fun and a change of pace. Your thoughts?

 

[lydian]

Have you tried dropping a wine cork in the bell? That cured the warble on my Conn. I can't imagine needing a backup for a C melody. Do you really play that many gigs on it where your main one could fail? I've never had any gigs with mine.

 

[PigSquealer]

The '23 is perfection but for the infamous Conn "warble" at low Bb/B.

Did you try a different mouthpiece ? Review the testing video #5 I sent you. Did the warble get worse ? Was minor to manageable.
I could only test with the Dr. Caravan MPC. The shank size is .660. Everything else I have is much smaller. Your unit is the first & only I’ve had this issue with. I highly doubt it left the factory with the issue. I’m wondering if the original owner had this issue ?
102 years and no signs of use ?

 

[Greychatter]

Have you tried dropping a wine cork in the bell? That cured the warble on my Conn. I can't imagine needing a backup for a C melody. Do you really play that many gigs on it where your main one could fail? I've never had any gigs with mine.

Appreciate the reply. Tried the cork. C Mel backup may be overkill, but I suspect you and I would differ in lots of other ways. I know the Conn sound but have never played a vintage Buescher, unless my childhood '68 Bundy counts. If anyone's spent real time on both, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[PigSquealer]

Have you tried dropping a wine cork in the bell?

Wine cork & MPC plastic cap both. Honestly I think it’s the mouthpiece.

 

[Greychatter]

Thanks!! As it happens, the Buescher came with what I take to be the original mpc (only visible marking reads "S4"). I just got through cleaning it and will try it out. Otherwise, I'm still using the Weibster#5 and the Caravan.

 

[PigSquealer]

(1) Conn '25 NW Series II in original condition with 95% silver plate. It's missing a few springs, has a shallow dent on the upper profile of the bow, but all rollers are rolling free. Has an alto style neck with a microtuner that turns, and RTH. It needs cleaning, polish, pads, lube, cork, the works.

View attachment 36646
2) 1916 Buescher stencil for Selmer NY. Original petrified pads and totally dent free with 95% silver plate. Many springs are missing, a couple of rods are stiff but not frozen solid, and all rollers roll. Consider: (1) I favor vintage Conns. (2) I want a warble-free C Mel.
View attachment 36647

Coin toss !
The Conn looks like it has gold inlay on bell. No difference between 1922–26.

The Selmer NY may not share the same SN dating timeline. I haven’t researched this.
These were made by Buescher but to Henri & Alexander’s specifications. What the differences are between them I haven’t fully documented yet. I do have one. I can say the SNY has harder / thicker body metal. SN#434xx.

Rudy Wiedoeft first played a Selmer NY. Also the first company to endorse him.

 

[PigSquealer]

Thanks!! As it happens, the Buescher came with what I take to be the original mpc (only visible marking reads "S4"). I just got through cleaning it and will try it out. Otherwise, I'm still using the Weibster#5 and the Caravan.

S4 on side by the table ?

Original Buescher has oval name stamp and “C”.

 

[kamak]

My 1923 Buescher-made Lyon&Healy C Mel doesn't warble with the MPC Planet mouthpiece I have.

 

[PigSquealer]

My 1923 Buescher-made Lyon&Healy C Mel doesn't warble with the MPC Planet mouthpiece I have.

The issue is largely related to Conn horns. Very common to the 6M & 10m.

 

[kamak]

The issue is largely related to Conn horns. Very common to the 6M & 10m.

Interesting, I hadn't heard of this before today!

 

[LostCircuits]

My 1923 Buescher-made Lyon&Healy C Mel doesn't warble with the MPC Planet mouthpiece I have.

I restored a 1922 Conn C-mel a few years ago and it was "warble -sensitive" to the MPCs used. No big deal though, there were several MPCs that minimized the issue/ made it go away.

 

[PigSquealer]

Interesting, I hadn't heard of this before today!

It’s not limited to Conns just IMHO the most common. Like a handful of players have no problem blowing a horn, and yet the owner can’t make it work. Wine / champagne cork or mouthpiece cap in the bow often helps.
Also look up “motorboating”.