Bottom C

[sharon]

Despite practicing this note ad nauseum and doing long tones I can't quite get it. What happens is this - I do the note and it's fine and long tone, fine. Playing scales ok. Playing it during a song there is a whistle and then the note comes out (sometimes).

Now I suppose that this is probably a lack of air support which I had assumed would get better with lots of practice (like all the other tricky notes). Could anyone please suggest a specific exercise or practice method that I could try to get over this. It's really annoying and interfering with some lovely tunes. 😡

Sharon

 

[Simon]

Hi Sharon - try singing through the song (and that low c) to experience what happens throat/tongue/air wise when you do, then..

0. can you play just the mouthpiece and get an octave? i practised this at a piano for a few (ear splitting) minutes a day for a fortnight and could get this. when i played low notes on sax they were easy cos my throat/tongue were ready with the air

1. play loud going from the lowest note you can get easily down - eg Low E then Low D then Low C (slur down). You need more air to get this note happening

2. work on overtones - slur Low C to next C up to the G above that then back down. Get the feeling of throat and tongue position

3. thinking as you do it - DONT! This is the point of practice - you get the hang of something and no longer have to think about it. Best not to obsess over it - it'll come with time

Cheers
Simon

 

[Pete Thomas]

I agree with Simon except point 3, though maybe we are talking about different types of "thinking". I tend to use the words "focus" or "concentrate" but basically I mean listening to the sound and absorbing the sound its more of a meditation than a thinking. So it's probably not tha same as what Simon maens by thinking. Definitely don't obsess.

I would suggest that you introduce a lot of legato (soft) tonguing into your practice. Not like staccato, you continue the note right up to the next one and the tongue is in and out very quickly and as unobtrusively as possible. If its a scale or melodic passage you aim for the tonguing to be imperceptible - it must almost sound slurred. With repeated notes think of a series more like one long note with your tongue just flicking in and out to mark time almost. And I suggest you do that going gradually down from an easy note like B to the very bottom Bb.

 

[sharon]

Simon thanks, I've been trying that sort of thing and will carry on. I'm not quite sure what you mean about getting an octave with just the mouthpiece. If I blow into the mouthpiece I just get a note. Sorry to be such a dimwit


Pete I do that focusing thing on the note, in fact I've started doing long notes to start my practice session off, like you suggest so that I don't lose concentration - I've found it really helpful and my tone has improved enormously (I think). I do have a natural tendancy to soft tonguing in my playing so this type of practice would be easy to stick to. It's how I tend to do scales and I have to think to run scales and tongue the notes properly.

I find if I do run down the notes that bottom C does come out more often than not (don't think I could do that bottom Bb yet mind). It's just when the note crops up in a piece of music I have to pause and think about my breath and diaphragm etc before I can sound the note, which spoils it of course.

I haven't got to the stage of obsessing about it (yet) I tend to think and have found that most things sort themselves out with time, patience and the right sort of practice. So I shall just persevere.

Thanks

Sharon

 

[Bobby G]

For me, being self-taught, what Simon and Pete are saying is pretty much what I've found - softer tonguing, so you kind of 'launch' the note works for me, then you can kind of lead up to a more attacking, staccato way of playing it will get you there.

I guess the thinking/meditation points are something I've applied too; rather than thinking 'oh no, here comes a low C' which can subconsciously cause you to constrict a bit (I'm pretty sure this is what I was doing earlier on) you kind of focus on the whole phrase or tune that has the low C. The key I suppose is to try and stay relaxed yet concentrated.

On another note, I used to have a lot of trouble consistently getting anything below low C#, this was caused partly by my relative beginner status, but also by a small leak somewhere a little further up the horn, so it might be worth checking for that.

 

[sandeha_lynch]

Bottom C, B, and Bb I can only describe as 'thinking with my stomach'.

It surprises me how little air seems to be needed for those notes, but they need pushing a bit.

 

[sharon]

Sandeha Lynch wrote:
Bottom C, B, and Bb I can only describe as 'thinking with my stomach'.

It surprises me how little air seems to be needed for those notes, but they need pushing a bit.

You are so right about that. I am finding that these notes do come from your stomach sort of.

I've been practicing some of methods you've all suggested and I am getting a good result. I'm using the "morning has broken" transcription in the Ravenscroft complete sax player book 2 as a practice tune and there is definately an improvement - so I shall keep at it. (I'm also trying to sing it which is not so good >.<

Sharon

 

[sharon]

Thanks Simon that's perfect - I'll try and incorporate it into my practice.

I still haven't got a teacher - I know in an ideal world I should but I have a French nightclass which I sometimes struggle to get to with family and work committments so wonder when I can find the time. Most weeknights are taken up with children/homework. My daughter is also about to take up Clarinet so the budget has to stretch to her lessons before mine which is OK as I think that's more important.

I'm quite disciplined about my approach to practice and will just persevere as I am for now. I'm just happy to be able to find the practice time every day and hope to have lessons in the future. Not ideal I know and I'm probably getting bad habits, but I'll worry about that when I eventually get lessons.

Thanks for all your input I appreciate it.

Sharon

 

[sandeha_lynch]

Sharon, I've sent you a PM.