Asian horns - An amazing level of prejudice

Rogerb

Senior Member
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Costa Blanca, Spain
I have just been amazed to find so many people who seem to be highly intelligent, but who insist that any saxophone from the whole Asian continent must at best be 'mediocre' 🙁

Some do magnanimously exclude Japan from this sweeping condemnation.

Unbelievable..... I have to assume they haven't seen and heard some of the work which comes out of Taiwan and the ROC, or if they have, they were seeing and hearing only what they 'knew' they would see/hear l.l
 
I imagine their magnanimity towards Japanes instruments is a grudging acknowledgement that maybe Yanagisawa and Yamaha produce some good instruments? FWIW, I am very happy with my Yamaha alto, and over the years I have owned several acoustic guitars including prestigious makes like Martin and Guild, but my favourite is still my old Japanese Epiphone from the late 60's/early 70's, when Japanese instruments really were almost universally derided.
 
In regards to car manufacturing quality, I read somewhere the Japanese brands are first, the Europeans are second and the Big Three from Detroit, Ford, the General and Chrysler are a very distant third. I would presume that also reflects other industries as well.

I have also got the impression from quite a few Americans, if they are from the West Coast they think the universe begins at LA and finishes at New York City, and if they come from the East Coast they think the universe begins at New York City and finishes at LA. A recent survey confirmed that most Americans did not even know where Iraq is and yet more than 100,000 of their own people are serving there. Scary thought. Most Americans do not know where New Zealand is and yet during the Second World War, ten of thousands of US personnel were based here to serve in the Pacific theatre of the War. Some Americans think NZ is somewhere near The Netherlands or Denmark. Maybe their education system needs a revamp as well. You hear me George!
Regards,
Greg Strange.
 
Isn't fashion and semi-poverty partially responsible?
You can only know if that mystic Mk Vl is better than a Vll or a Kamikaze Special by owning and playing them. How many can afford that?
Most of us have to make a choice based on cost and the impressions we gain from forums such as this and the companies we contact. Hanson and Walstein seem reasonably popular here, probably because both companies are friendly, informative and helpful.
Perhaps the insularity of the Americans might be attributed to being half way to everywhere and Woody's 'This Land is Your Land'. Incidentally, can you put your finger on Tonga in the Atlas immediately?
Finally, Greg, everyone knows that Zealand is part of Lincolnshire and therefore you are really a Yellowbelly. 😉
 
Isn't fashion and semi-poverty partially responsible?
You can only know if that mystic Mk Vl is better than a Vll or a Kamikaze Special by owning and playing them. How many can afford that?
Most of us have to make a choice based on cost and the impressions we gain from forums such as this and the companies we contact. Hanson and Walstein seem reasonably popular here, probably because both companies are friendly, informative and helpful.
Perhaps the insularity of the Americans might be attributed to being half way to everywhere and Woody's 'This Land is Your Land'. Incidentally, can you put your finger on Tonga in the Atlas immediately?
Finally, Greg, everyone knows that Zealand is part of Lincolnshire and therefore you are really a Yellowbelly. 😉
 
Hi Roger

I agree with you in general terms. Not only is there an high level of prejudice, but also some trenchant views on other subjects, such as the views held by some posters that all metal mouthpieces are bad, that all Otto Links MUST be refaced, etc. Because it's such a large forum, with a very wide membership in the US, there is some good stuff, but you've really got to sort the wheat from the chaff. I often give up on topics because they just go on into people's personal axe-grinding. Not something you find here. 🙂

Jon
 
Hi Old Git,

Incidentally, can you put your finger on Tonga in the Atlas immediately?

Yes I can. It's about three hours flying time north of where I live. Next door to Fiji and Samoa. The English might remember a famous Tongan, his name is Jonah - favourite hobby - running over English rugby players.

Finally, Greg, everyone knows that Zealand is part of Lincolnshire

This is where I really get confused. I have never been to Lincolnshire. I have been to Hampshire. Zealand is Denmark largest island. Is Lincolnshire part of Denmark? Do they speak Danish? Does Lincolnshire have white sandy beaches like New Zealand, Nikau palm trees, fiords, mountains, flowering pohutakawa trees, the All Blacks (Lincolnshire can have them - going cheap!)?

therefore you are really a Yellowbelly.

Isn't Yellowbelly a snake? A term for coward? I don't suffer with hepatitis or liver problems. Actually my belly is kind of a white colour - soon to be remedied by sunbathing (watch out for that ozone layer - what ozone layer?) in my new Speedos! Yahoo! Summertime is here.
Regards,
Greg Strange.
 
Greg,
Enjoy your sunbathing in your Speedos, although please do not be so explicit in future. UK women are easily excitable, I've found. 🙁
The Danes ran Lincolnshire for quite a while as evidenced by the place names and Yellowbelly is the the Lincolnshire chosen name choice.
Being Welsh, I can ruefully assure you that it wasn't only English players that Jonah galloped over. 🙁
As for Tonga, still recall the Calypso "The Queen of Tonga", all about Brenda's Coronation back in 52/3, that's what the "old" is about. Anyone else willing to give it a go on Adolphe's finest?
Enjoy your Summer.
Bill.
BTW:-What's Summer?
 
There are many theories on the origin of the term yeller bellies for Lincolnshire folk. I always understood that many years ago the uniform of the Lincolnshire Regiment included a yellow waistcoat - hence yeller belly.

I too am old enough to remember the Queen of Tonga (although I don't remember her name) who never stopped smiling while riding in an open carriage in the pouring rain.
 
Thaumaturge wrote:
There are many theories on the origin of the term yeller bellies for Lincolnshire folk. I always understood that many years ago the uniform of the Lincolnshire Regiment included a yellow waistcoat - hence yeller belly.

I too am old enough to remember the Queen of Tonga (although I don't remember her name) who never stopped smiling while riding in an open carriage in the pouring rain.

Queen Salote (not sure of the spelling...I'll look it up!).

Yeah, that's right, see http://www.tups.me.uk/news.htm
 
I'm not a true Yeller belly as I wasn't born in Lincolnshire but am married to one and have lived here from 1975-1988 and again since Spetmber this year. Here are some explanations:

The Royal North Lincolnshire Militia
The building on Burton Road, Lincoln that is now home to the Museum of Lincolnshire Life was once the barracks of the Royal North Lincolnshire Militia. The officers of this regiment would wear bright yellow waistcoats on the battlefield. This made it easier for their men to spot them (let's overlook the fact that it also made them rather obvious targets...) and also earned them the name Lincolnshire Yellowbellies.

Newts and frogs

There is, apparently, a breed of newt common to the fens that has a bright yellow underside. So now you know.
Should you not be very partial to newts Marion Christy, a yellowbelly herself, was always told that it was frogs that had the yellow bellies and were rather partial to the damp conditions of the undrained fens.

Farmers
During summer the farmers would often work without their shirts on (the saucy devils). As they tended the fields they would be bent over, and get a lovely suntan on their back. Their fronts however would be in the shadows the whole time and so would stay white. The reflection of the corn is said to have given a yellow hue to their bellies.

Mail Coach
The mail coach that ran from Lincoln to London had a yellow undercarriage. Upon it's arrival in London it is said that the locals would call out "Here comes the Lincolnshire yellowbelly".

Sheep
The traditional breed of sheep in the county is the Lincoln Longwool. As the name suggests, it's fleece was, well, long. It looked rather like the sheep in question had a bad perm. These sheep would often graze in the fields of mustard that were once a common sight around Lincolnshire. As their shaggy coat dragged along the ground it would pick up pollen from the mustard flowers and give them, you've guessed it, a yellow belly.
 
I love Japanese stuff. I have a Honda VFR800 motorbike, a Nikon camera and Yanagisawa saxophone. I once had Japanese massage slippers which were fantastic but the dog ate them. The dog is a Welsh Border Collie and what with the road to England, that is two good things to come from Wales :whistle:.

I once owned a Yamaha XT660 motorcycle which was very badly built and then I found out it had been built in Europe and not Japan!

Chinese produce is beginning to get on my nerves now though as they specialise in nothing but supply everything; something has to give and with the prices so low, surely it has to be the quality.

Cheers

Moz
 
You just can't, IMO, justifiably make that sort of generalisation, Moz, regarding such a huge country...... sure, a lotta Chinese products are cr*p, but I have seen many which are beautifully 'crafted', as good as anything from anywhere else.
 
Moz wrote:
something has to give and with the prices so low, surely it has to be the quality.

You'd think so, but this doesn't seem to be the case, there is so much very high quality produce from China now. I've seen some very well made saxophones from there.
 
Both the last two replies have subtley backed up my case.

Pete "I've seen [some] very well made saxophones..."

Roger "sure, a lotta Chinese products are cr*p, but I have seen many [many?] which are beautifully 'crafted..."

"SOME....MANY..." words that are so subjective, three? ten? hundred?

There may well be some good stuff but I suspect there is a lot more rubbish than quality and how is one to sort the wheat from the chaff. I work for a distribution company and I see thousands of boxes with the 'made in China' wording on them and for the most part the contents are utter rubbish (I know the companies that distribute them so have seen the products). How do you start looking for the needle of Chinese quality when the haystack of tat is so big?

I appreciate the fact that some of you have 'seen' 'some' good stuff but how much of it do we actually own? From a sax point of view I suspect the number of Chinese 'quality saxophones' actually owned -- and regularly played -- by contributors to the forum is very close to zero. Shame there is no way to take a show of hands.

For now I'll stick with Japanese stuff (and German, and (very occasionally) British).

Cheers

Moz

(No personal attacks are overt or implied, this is merely discussion)
 
Lots of people seem to like, own and play saxophones made in China like Hansons and Walsteins. You are quite right that the difficulty is sorting the wheat from the chaff, so "non-name sax made in China" isn't a great recommendation in itself (but I'd also be pretty reticent about buying a Japanese, British or whatever make I'd never heard of without trying before buying). If, however, the sax comes through a source who does some quality control, set-up, final finishing etc. then you stand a chance of getting a much better instrument than you could afford otherwise. If you buy the thing from a company who does sale or return then so much the better.

cheers,

Bob

(owner and player of saxes from the ancient Chinese artisans Walstein and Rikter)
 
I think Bob has put his finger on it.

Actually, most of the Hanson sax bodies (apart from the real cheapos) are still made in Germany, I think, with the keywork coming from China.

I don't think that China has a monopoly on making cr*p saxophones (think of the'MexiConn'), any more than, say, France or Germany only make top-quality.

They just make MORE (of everything!). :9
 

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