Saxophone beginners Another first

[Jay]

I have spent a whole evening not practising long tones, but learning 'Stranger on the Shore' by playing along with Acker Bilk on YouTube circa 1988 😀

Not the solo (yet?) you understand, just the AABA tune, but first time I've learned a proper tune by ear.

I keep forgetting bits I had got. I know I would find it easier if I wrote it down, and since I already visualise the notes that I'm playing, I wouldn't find that hard to do.

But that does sort of feel like it's using a different bit of my brain. Does it, does anyone know? Maybe I ought to practice more with the ear --> fingers bit rather than the eyes --> fingers bit? What do other people do, learning songs?

 

[Ivan]

That's a great step forward!

Some people find that if they learn by dots they can't remember the tune without and visa versa so it's likely that you're using a different set of brain connections

Learning by ear and by dots ain't a bad thing

 

[kevgermany]

Guess you've got a photographic memory. Keep going!

 

[Colin the Bear]

I mostly play by ear till I get stuck and then check the dots. Some tunes I just can't hear, and I have to learn them from the dots. If it's a piece I've never heard then it has to be dots. I commit everything in my repertoire to memory.

The clever bit is when the band leader calls a song you've neither played or heard before and then points to you for first solo

It's good practice to just play. Play it fast play it slow, waltz it , swing it, play the changes, find another way through it.

 

[Jay]

You guys are very encouraging of the little beginner steps, thank you 🙂

Not quite a photographic memory, but very visual. I should like to be able to hear a tune and play it though, or be able to play one that I can sing, so I will keep making my ear-brain-fingers connection work - perhaps it will improve?

 

[Chilli]

Not sure that'll help but anyway...
I've always relied a lot on dots (I'm a fairly good reader) but I've started taking jazz-oriented lessons in September and my teacher insists that I learn the tunes by ear. Among other stuff, we're working on various Charlie Parker tunes, I have the Omnibook so I do cheat a little bit sometimes (mostly because the recordings are of poor quality, often way sharp or flat) but I find I remember the tunes much better than when I played them with the dots... However, I sometimes "see" the dots in my head...
Next step, I guess, is to make the connection with which degree of the scale is played when (i.e. third bar pattern starts on the fourth, fifth bar starts on the sixth, or rather the third of the fourth when playing a blues 😉 ). Then I'll know the tunes in every key 🙂
I suppose both are useful and it all depends on what you remember best but working on both can't be bad.

 

[jbtsax]

I had never heard notes referred to as dots until I joined this forum. It must be a British expression. I just want to add that learning tunes "by ear" is one of the very best things one can do while learning to play an instrument. It shouldn't replace being able to read music, but should compliment that skill. The neat part of learning a song from a recording is that one can also learn pitch, rhythm, phrasing, articulation, and style at the same time---not to mention trying to emulate that player's sound.

 

[Nomad Z]

My reading is pretty bad, and I've always played by ear (apart from Bach's Prelude in Cmaj on piano, which took me ages to learn). I tend to be aware of the intervals and translate that into finger positions. In other words, if I know what note I'm starting on, I can work out the other notes. There will be bum notes on the way, depending on how experienced I am with the instrument. I've played guitar most of my life, and it's very intuitive on that, and bass is pretty similar. When I took up keyboards, it took a little while, but I manage to hit most notes that I hear in my head (but lack the technical proficiency compared to guitar).

As I get started with sax, I'm taking the same approach - find the first note and diddle about to find the next one, and the next, and so on. When I hit a wrong note, I often go back to the start of the piece and try again until I can play the melody or phrase correctly. Then I practice it a few times to help build muscle memory (and keep coming back to it at other times).

Another thing I do is improvise to backing tracks (or even without backing tracks). This also helps with the approach of matching intervals to fingerings, but without the pressure of trying to play a known melody. There are less 'wrong' notes - notes that you didn't intend to play can still be good ones and take the melodic ideas in new directions. I generally start by looking for notes that fit the tune, and then start building phrases that fit. Eventually, if I like the tune enough, I'll start working out my own melodic parts which may become a fixed piece, or at least a theme/motif that I play around with in between phases of improvisation.

I'm not quite there yet with sax, but it's getting closer - my feel for the intervals improves with every session. (With it being a somewhat non-linear instrument in terms of fingering, I've been hunting for semitones quite a bit recently.)

 

[Colin the Bear]

Get a finger chart and learn where all the notes are. and include a chromatic run from bottom to top to bottom in your practice regime. A fast chromatic searching run can be a saver when improvising. Quite revealing harmonically too. You'll find things you wouldn't have thought of.

Having started out on woodwind I find the saxophone a very simple instrument. It's very linear. You just open one hole at a time to rise in semitones.

 

[jbtsax]

One thing that is very helpful in figuring out a new song by ear is to learn the scale of the key(s) the song is in. Many jazz tunes will modulate to a new key on the bridge which adds both melodic and harmonic interest.

Having started out on woodwind I find the saxophone a very simple instrument. It's very linear. You just open one hole at a time to rise in semitones.

What about C# to D? Actually Jim Schmidt has developed a saxophone with a true chromatic keyboard.

 

[Jay]

What about C# to D?

D to Eb and A to G# are the ones I find counter-intuitive.

 

[Colin the Bear]

You should try them on recorder.

From A to G your finger closes two holes. Adding the pinky keeps one of them open. Same with E to D, one finger closes two holes, adding the pinky keeps one of them open. That's how I think of it.

 

[Colin the Bear]

What about C# to D? Actually Jim Schmidt has developed a saxophone with a true chromatic keyboard.

I know it's a 2 pinky move but it's still opening one flap/hole.

I looked at that chromatic sax. It looked very complicated and seemed to be a solution looking for a problem

 

[jbtsax]

I know it's a 2 pinky move but it's still opening one flap/hole.

I was thinking of 3rd space C# to 4th line D. 🙂

I looked at that chromatic sax. It looked very complicated and seemed to be a solution looking for a problem

I couldn't agree more. You can't even see the box from where Jim Schmidt thinks, but I will be forever grateful for his round diamond grit tonehole files.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Yes. And then there's all that altissimo business I can't do lol