Saxophone beginners altissimo fingerings

[Ivan]

I'm so glad we aren't actually talking about the altissimo E,F and F# on soprano - nobody should be allowed to play those.

Someone tell @David Roach

 

[6182]

View: https://youtu.be/sPMKlEwrIs8

 

[rhysonsax]

Is this a technical issue with the sax or a playing technique problem?

@IanLT says that he can play them OK with the palm keys, so presumably the embouchure and voicing technique are OK.

If the front F key isn't set right it won't open the F palm key the correct amount and can make the "alternate front fingerings" harder to speak.

Rhys

 

[scotsman]

Correct Rhys..As soon as I realised that my front F was WAY too open and reduced it Alissimo G and the rest of the front F fingerings spoke really clear.. It s just a matter of adjusting till they open up tonally . One way of checking is to just slightly open the front F when you play them.. Its an easy check.. However of course then comes the rest!! Just my two p worth.. Wot Larks Eh!!! .. Regards

 

[Nick Wyver]

About a year later, i was fully playing up to the 2nd altissimo G.

On soprano? Respect!
(But glad you don't live near me).

 

[Ivan]

On soprano? Respect!
(But glad you don't live near me).

Also interferes with bat echolocation

 

[6182]

i play alto
this is an upload posted in the beginners section

DeadAudiolink Removed

 

[rhysonsax]

i play alto
this is an upload posted in the beginners section

DeadAudiolink Removed

Er, nice playing but I don't understand why you have posted this recording in a thread about soprano altissimo fingerings.

Rhys

 

[David Roach]

.....I'm so glad we aren't actually talking about the altissimo E,F and F# on soprano - nobody should be allowed to play those.

Someone tell @David Roach

Let's get this straight, top E, F, F# are not officially altissimo. G is altissimo if you have a soprano without a top G key (courtesy Snr, Pedanticus Maximus)
Altissimo E and above are mere squeaks and are mainly accidents 😱.
I can reliably play an altissimo C (3 octaves above bottom C), but I have much more trouble with the Bb and B just below which are much more sensitive to reed and embouchure. However, I do something very weird in my throat that I can't very easily describe when I play that alt C.

By using the palm keys on my soprano sax I can get the altissimo E, F & F# notes. However, when I try to get any of those notes using the simpler fingerings all I get is a muffled sound with an indiscernible pitch!? E.g. to get altissimo E using the alternative simpler fingerings, I press the following 4 keys: front F key, Octave key & the left-hand 2nd & 3rd finger keys.
I would be most grateful for any advice. Atb. Ian.

There could be two or more reasons for this problem.
1) Your sax is out of adjustment. So get it checked out.
or
2) When you play top E and above with the front fingerings, in order to obtain them you are 'exciting' (leveraging) a different partial within the soprano's tube from that of the normal fingering.. Thus, you need to make a fairly radically different larynx shape to obtain these notes. You only really learn this by doing long tones in that register, because it's difficult to explain in any meaningful way what actually goes on inside the throat. What I can say is that for the most part it is NOT all about using more pressure from the embouchure, although I don't entirely rule that out. It's all about VOICING.

With the front fingerings (which use the top F key as a vent key, like an octave key), top E is generated from a fundamental of G, F from A, F# from Bb etc etc. So you have to encourage those fundamental fingerings to give you a higher partial. This happens in the larynx.

But as you might have noticed, what I just said does not make entire sense! If G (vented by the top F key) produces E, why does A (a tone higher) give an F (only a semitone up)?? Well in fact you will notice (once you can produce these notes) that the Front E is a bit flat and the front F is a bit sharp. If you play the front E with the G# key open and relax the throat cavity a bit, the two notes start to fall in line as a'a bit sharp', so you can relax for both notes.
Top F# is less sensitive to the opening of the G# key but will again require a different larynx shape.
Top G (altissimo or keyed) is a different matter and will require a considerably different larynx shape to produce in tune with either fingering.
And so on and so forth up into the altissimo proper. There was a period in my life when I could reliably play chromatically up to top C and beyond, but you really have to be a top playing fitness to do it and I decided that life is too short....but it was cool for a while.

 

[6182]

the main point is, learn to play overtones first,
if you cant play all the overtones alto, tenor etc...
you cant play altissimo properly to get higher up the altissimo
range, you actually play an overtone on the altissimo
key. so the same fingering position can be used to
blow two separate altissimo notes, one an overtone higher.

 

[IanLT]

Can you explain which exact notes and simpler fingerings you mean.

Altissimo E F and F# are very difficult, presumably you mean E4,F4 and F#4 - one octave above the palm key notes E3,F3 and F#3

So I wonder if you just mean the high notes of the regular range, ie E3, F3 and F#3.

Pete, I do mean E3, F3 & F#3. I can play these notes clearly and easily using the palm keys. However, when I try to get any of those notes using the simpler fingerings all I get is a muffled sound with an indiscernible pitch!? E.g. to get E3 using the alternative simpler fingerings, I press the following 4 keys: front F key, Octave key & the left-hand 2nd & 3rd finger keys.
I would be most grateful for any advice.

 

[David Roach]

Pete, I do mean E3, F3 & F#3. I can play these notes clearly and easily using the palm keys. However, when I try to get any of those notes using the simpler fingerings all I get is a muffled sound with an indiscernible pitch!? E.g. to get E3 using the alternative simpler fingerings, I press the following 4 keys: front F key, Octave key & the left-hand 2nd & 3rd finger keys.
I would be most grateful for any advice.

See my earlier post which addresses this issue.

 

[Halfers]

Can you play a front F OK? If so try playing an extended note on front F, then drop your 4th finger onto the G key without tonging and see if the note plays. As I mentioned before, I struggle to play a front E myself. I consider it to be a fault on my behalf, rather than the horn (I could be wrong) Starting on a front E is beyond me at the moment.

 

[Greg Strange]

I have trouble playing the high E, F, F# using the high Front F key and basically use the palm keys where I can play E, F, F# easily on my Yamaha 475 and up to high G on my Walstein soprano because it has a high G key. I think it is for a reason that sax manufacturers in the 1920s only keyed sopranos to high Eb and later on the Selmer (Paris) Mark VI and Yamaha YSS 61, and Yanigasawa Mark VI clone sopranos did not have a high Front F key because those high notes are pretty troublesome at the best of times on soprano. I'm glad I don't own a sopranino...

Dave Roach makes some good points playing the higher register notes of the soprano using the Front F key - I might try these next time I play my sopranos...cheers...

Greg S.

 

[David Roach]

@Greg Strange, I think your comments about 1920s manufacturing are correct. The use of altissimo was much less prevalent in those days, and successful use of the front fingerings really depends upon the correct position of the vocal tract. But actually, playing in tune and with a good sound at those pitches with any fingerings on any sax requires attention to voicing.