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Saxophone beginners All these reeds!

ktmdom

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47
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UK
Hi Folks

I've been playing (well if you can call it that) for almost 4 months now. I'm currently using a Yamaha 4C mouthpiece and started on 1.5 Rico Royal's. I'm quite lucky to live near to a saxophone shop and repair centre, thing is I didn't know how quickly I'd progress through reed strength. I'm now using Rico Select Jazz 3s and after todays daily practice session I'd like to try a 3m for the increased resistance. But I've just got so many reeds in the house at the moment (some 1.5s haven't even been used).

I guess my question is when does it stop?
 
It doesn't stop. Next step is a mouthpiece with a wider tip. And then more reeds...

Yes, that's about the size of it. The original poster will find that things do settle down after a bit. While there are exceptions to the rule, most players tend to standardise on one mouthpiece and one reed combination. Other players will have a couple of mouthpieces e.g. one general purpose mouthpiece and another which is more punchy for live gigs e.g. perhaps a Dukoff. Take me on tenor - I have an 1970s "Early Babbitt" Otto Link STM for standard use (it's lovely!), an Otto Link Tone-Edge if I need something darker, plus a Rico Metalite for those rare open air gigs, where I'm being drowned out by the rest of the band and need to burn the paint off a nearby fence. However, upwards of 90% of the time I'm playing that Otto Link STM.

A few players will have 3 or 4 mouthpieces in their collection. However, it's all too easy to become a jack of all trades and master of none. That's why ueber-professionals such as Michael Brecker (who started on an Otto Link STM in the 1970s and then moved onto a custom-made Guardala) tended to stick to one particular mouthpiece so they could achieve total mastery of their instrument.

That's not to say that established players won't experiment and make occasional forays at a major sax-shop to try something new for 20 mins. The quest for the perfect mouthpiece is something which tempts every player just a little bit. Who could resist the temptation that somewhere on this planet is a mouthpiece which will somehow make your sound "click" neatly into place and give you everything you ever wanted and more besides? Trouble is, that search can quickly become like the quest for the holy grail if you're not careful. You can end up going round and round in circles, then finding out that the mouthpiece you already had was actually pretty good.

Consider:- there are probably around 12 professional-grade saxophone manufacturers which have ever existed e.g. Yamaha, Yanagisawa, Keilwerth, Mauriat, Buescher, Conn, Martin, King, Couesnon, Holton, Dolnet, Beaugnier, Selmer and Kohlert. If you factor in the different models which each manufacturer made (such as the Yamaha YTS-62 or YTS-875 etc) then you probably end up with around 60 horns to choose from. Obviously, we're including older horns such as a late-1920s Conn New Wonder Series II in that mix - but it's still a good selection to choose from.

However, that figure of 60 is dwarfed by the many hundreds of different mouthpieces out there. For example, let's assume you went for an Otto Link. Well, they do at least 3 different models of mouthpiece - the flagship being the Otto Link STM. Even if you pick one of those, you still need to decide whether it's the standard STM or the STM NY. Having made that choice, you now have to select the tip opening - and there are plenty to try - from 5 through 9* in half-increment steps. So, that's 10 different options. In other words, for Otto Links alone that's well over 40 different mouthpieces if you include the STM NY.

Finally, do you accept the factory-made Otto Link mouthpiece "as is" or get a mouthpiece guru to modify it for you. Alternatively, do you pick a vintage model e.g. a 1950's vintage Otto Link, or a 1960s "Floridian" Otto Link or an 1970s like the one I play? From 40 different mouthpieces made by Otto Link the figure can suddenly increase to around 80 options for Otto Link mouthpieces alone. Oh yes, it quickly gets complicated.

Now, when you bear in mind that Otto Link is just one of many mouthpiece manufacturers out there (including Jody Jazz, Meyer, Dukoff, Vandoren, Theo Wanne, Aizen, Guardala, Ed Pillinger, Beechler, Selmer, Bari, Brilhart, Lakey, Berg Larsen, Ponzol, Lawton, Rousseau, Yamaha, Yanagisawa, Runyon, or various Chinese clones etc) the permutations quickly multiply into the thousands. Jody Jazz alone has manufactured a total of 7 different mouthpieces over the years, with 4 still in productions. New mouthpiece manufacturers spring up every 5 years or so. All you need is a CNC machine, lathe and bench-press drill, an assortment of files and a dream. Any competent machinist can make a saxophone mouthpiece that works and is OK. Of course, the trick is knowing how to make really good ones that sing.

The big risk is that you spend so much time searching for the holy grail of the perfect mouthpiece, that you don't have time to actually play the damn horn. And that is why, apart from the occasional experiment from time to time, most players standardise on one or two mouthpieces. I have 3 mouthpieces for tenor. Two of them spend most of their time gathering dust. The other (1970s Otto Link STM) is the one that gets played.
 
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It's not just the strength, it's all the different brands of reed too. But when GAS strikes, it's a lot cheaper to experiment with new reeds than with new saxophones.

At some point in the future, you may want to try a mouthpiece with a wider tip, and then you will probably want to reduce reed strength, so it's worth hanging on to your old "weaker" reeds.
 
You missed all the Italians, lots of Germans and French and others...

Yes. Of course you're right - there's Orsi, Rampone & Cazzani, Borgani, Buffet, Malerne, Dorfler & Jorka plus a few others besides. There's even Boosey and (or) Hawkes who made some really nice horns in their time. I was half-asleep when I made that post! :confused:

Even so I think the point is made i.e. that whilst there are comparatively few saxophone-makers (and one Yamaha YTS-62 will be much the same as another) there are thousands of permutations re. mouthpieces.
 
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It's a common misconception, held by newcomers to the saxophone, that the numbers on the reeds are a measure of progress. Big numbers equaling a better player. Nothing could be further from the truth.

A training mouthpiece and a comfortable reed for the introductory period are recommended to develop the facial muscles of the embouchure. 4 months is a relatively short time for this to develop.

Control is the most important aspect of playing a saxophone. Chopping and changing at this early stage will, imo, confuse the embouchure and delay development. Progress on the saxophone has to be earned. It can not be bought. Daily, structured practice is the only way.


There's so much to get to grips when starting out. It's easy to forget that making music is the point.


There can be as much difference in the reeds of a single box as there is in different brands, strengths and manufacturers.

Find a make you like, in a strength that's just a little stiff, straight out of the box, so that it plays in and softens just right and stick with it. Focus on all the other aspects of playing and when you feel you've gone as far as this set up will take you, that's the time to move on from the training set up and have a look for a keeper.

After the chops have developed is the time to look for a more suitable set up. We all have a different physiognomy and matching this to reed and mouthpiece is a very personal thing. Rather like picking shoes, the ones that look best and have the most impressive label may not be the best performers. Fit is everything.
 
I understand I shouldn't associate reed strength with progress. But say I'm still playing in 4 years, is this where different mouthpieces come into play. Do different mouthpieces give the effect of a harder reed?
 
Do different mouthpieces give the effect of a harder reed?
There's more to it than that. A wider tip opening will generally speaking give more resistance when you blow, which is usually compensated for by using a softer reed. It will also, in general, make it easier to bend notes (a good thing) but more difficult not to bend notes (a bad thing). And different facing shapes and internal construction (baffles and what-not) will make certain kinds of sound easier/harder to produce. Other people on here know much more about that than me.

But unless you're some kind of saxophone prodigy, four months in you don't want to be worrying about any of that. A Yamaha 4C is a decent quality mouthpiece which is relatively easy to control. When you can consistently make a nice sound with that, you might want to think about where you want your sound to go, what sort of effects (eg scoops and bends) are appropriate for the kinds of music you want to play and so on. Then you might want to investigate different mouthpieces.
 
Thank you for all the useful advice, as I'm only studying for grade 1 the mouthpiece that I have is just fine. The reason for asking the question about mouthpieces was just curiosity.
I really enjoy playing the sax... I enjoy practicing and when Tuesdays come around I'm like a kid in a sweet shop bacause It's lesson day. I understand it's early days yet but I just wanted to know how they work, as before I didn't know.
 
Serious hat on now.

Generalising, the 4C is very narrow and will be difficult with soft reeds, especially for the high notes. But if you stick with softer reeds and can get the high notes, you'll have a very high level of control. Getting a decent sound with soft reeds on those high notes is even harder.

I think you're doing the right thing, moving up gradually in reed strength. Harder reeds give you more volume as well as better tone. But play what works/is comfortable.

Some people get on well with narrow tips, others not. It's worth experimenting later, before you get locked into narrow tips. But every time you'll be experimenting with reeds as well. Jazz Selects are great reeds, very consistent and seem to work well on most mouthpieces, whether filed or not. Keep your old soft reeds, they'll be useful when you experiment with wider tips.
 
This is an interesting discussion, when I started last February, my teacher told me to get a Selmer 90 MPC and Van Dooren 2.0 reeds ( I have a G$M alto). After a few weeks he told me to get Van Dooren 2.5s which I have been on ever since. I had a lot of trouble getting a decent sustained sound with much squeaking until I practised a lot while on holiday in the summer, doing long notes which people here swear by was a big help, it's now going a lot better and I get get all the notes reasonably well. I find a new 2.5 reed very difficult to play for a while until it's broken in, too much air escaping but when I tried to go back to a 2.0 reed the other day it was hopeless. I have seen here that some people like to scrape/trim a new reed with a cutter or a special tool, does anyone think that is necessary for a wel know make (expensive !) reed ?
 
I have seen here that some people like to scrape/trim a new reed with a cutter or a special tool, does anyone think that is necessary for a wel know make (expensive !) reed ?

Double reed players tend to fuss endlessly with their reeds. I always scrape a new bassoon reed to suit me, and I often scrape my bassoon reeds during their lifetime.

But most single reed players seem to be a lot less bothered. I guess this is partly because it is relatively easy for the manufacturers to mass-produce single reeds consistently, and in a variety of strengths. Also single reeds are much cheaper than double reeds, so there is less incentive to spend time working on them.

Since you are a new player, my advice would be not to bother with adjusting reeds unless you enjoy that sort of nerdy stuff. Just find a reed make and strength that suits you and stick with it.

If you do want to try scraping, I recommend Dr Downing's "Saxophonists Reed Doctor". It's an easy guide. The only equipment you need to start with is a very flat piece of wood or a plastic kitchen chopping board, a sharp hobby knife and some very fine emery paper. But you should realise that you will probably spoil as many reeds as you improve.
Saxophone Reed Doctor

Personally, I experiment with a different sort of reed once on a while, just to try something different. My limited experience with Vandoren Blue reeds is that they have seemed a bit inconsistent recently. I currently prefer D'Addario Select Jazz or Lupifaro. But maybe I have just been unlucky with Vandorens.

It's normal for a reed to be a bit hard until it is played in.
 

Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

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