Beginner recording Adult Beginner - 3 Years Later

[PiccoloPirate]

Trying not to scratch the records, lifting and lowering the tone arm, when learning Lester or Parker, while getting just a note or three, at a time, was the most difficult part of being a young kid.
Today's musical electronics, a blessing. 😍

 

[PiccoloPirate]

As stated, you need to sing along with Sarah, Ella, Kandace etc etc.
A favorite tune:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiQAk-AGzdY

 

[MikeMorrell]

@Pasogent

All good tips so far. My only additional comments are:
- you're doing wonderfully well!; I checked your book and you're already on 'level 3', so congrats on that!
- just use the tips that help you where you are now in your development; you can always come back to other tips later
- yes, things like 'intonation', 'dynamics' and 'expression' are good things to work on; but IMHO always in your own time
- IHMO, learning to play sax (better) should always be fun, enjoyable and fulfilling; so IHMO it's always better to maintain a good balance between a) what you've already achieved and b) your goals for further improvement

You've already achieved a great level of playing within 3 years, You also have some great tips for moving forward in your development.

Best wishes!

Mike

 

[JayeNM]

I wish I could get away from the sheet music and play less robotic/tense like. I think I try to concentrate and read the sheet music that I forget that I'm trying to play music. Your comment definitely resonated with me.

Not as if it is your 'fault' or anything. I mean, music is written because there's an intention by the publisher or arranger to have it phrased a certain way. So an academic sorta book or charts + backing track product is gonna sound a little 'square' more often than not.

Two ways to stretch out from that are either
1) get some material where the charts are written a little 'hipper' in phrasing (Abersold comes to mind)
or
2) do as Pete and Piccolo suggest above...listen to classic versions and try to start phrasing some of the song not 'verbatim' of your current charts.

2) can be challenging because it asks a player NOT to follow the melodies as written...so one needs to have a pretty good rhythmical sense to do that and not go out of time...

One song I think of which is fairly comfortable to segue into that....is Autumn Leaves. Simple melody, relatively. If you can find a chart of it, that will give you the melody notes and song structure. Then you can listen to some classic recorded versions and see how the artists changed the phrasing to make it more Hep.

For example, here is the Real Book orig Vol.1 chart. There are the notes and structure. But the MELODY is written very 'square'. No player getting into jazz plays the melody as it is written, doing so sounds lifeless.

But the melody is simple enough that you can start noodling with it and keep your place in the song:

 

[JayeNM]

 

[JayeNM]

Noodling for a relative beginner = something as simple as

1) changing a quarter note to two eighth notes

2) changing a whole note to two or three quarter notes then a rest or two...

3) actually CHANGING a melody note from what is written (this takes some basic chord knowledge, just so you can change it to a note which fits the chord of the bar...maybe that is down the road a ways for you but no harm in just trying and stumbling on a note which sounds 'right', either)

Etc...

 

[Pasogent]

@Pasogent

All good tips so far. My only additional comments are:
- you're doing wonderfully well!; I checked your book and you're already on 'level 3', so congrats on that!
- just use the tips that help you where you are now in your development; you can always come back to other tips later
- yes, things like 'intonation', 'dynamics' and 'expression' are good things to work on; but IMHO always in your own time
- IHMO, learning to play sax (better) should always be fun, enjoyable and fulfilling; so IHMO it's always better to maintain a good balance between a) what you've already achieved and b) your goals for further improvement

You've already achieved a great level of playing within 3 years, You also have some great tips for moving forward in your development.

Best wishes!

Mike

Thanks Mike. I will try and keep that in mind when I hit the inevitable roadblocks and challenges waiting for me as I continue learning.

 

[Pasogent]

Noodling for a relative beginner = something as simple as

1) changing a quarter note to two eighth notes

2) changing a whole note to two or three quarter notes then a rest or two...

3) actually CHANGING a melody note from what is written (this takes some basic chord knowledge, just so you can change it to a note which fits the chord of the bar...maybe that is down the road a ways for you but no harm in just trying and stumbling on a note which sounds 'right', either)

Etc...

Hmmmm interesting.... Thanks

 

[MikeMorrell]

Thanks Mike. I will try and keep that in mind when I hit the inevitable roadblocks and challenges waiting for me as I continue learning.

Roadblocks and challenges are IMHO a completely normal part of learning anything. As is 'the feeling of now playing worse than I did a few weeks (or months) ago'. In my personal experience, learning is not a 'continual progression' from week to week or month to month. Yes, you'll undoubtedly have setbacks, roadblocks and maybe 'regressive' periods. But just persevere with practicing. Sometimes it takes a few weeks (or months) for things to suddenly 'click together'.

Very OT: I've never been 'runner' (for more than 5 - 10km). But I still remember reading a 'running book' which included 'training to run a certain distance (up to marathons)'. One thing that still sticks in my mind is that trying to run ever-increasing distances (or faster times) is the very worst training strategy! Instead runners go through phases of 'building up' (distance/times) and then 'decreasing' their training distances/times. The long-term training strategy is to continually 'build up' from a higher level than than the previous phase and to 'decrease' to a higher level than the previous phase. So over the long-term athletes are continually improving their 'level of performance' while still maintaining phases of 'building up' and 'decreasing' their training levels.

I have no idea how this might relate to sax practice! But I can imagine that it's sometimes good to not always practice ever-increasingly difficult pieces and try to incorporate all the tips given here. But instead to apply some of what you've learned (like 'intonation', 'dynamics' and 'expression') to some easier to play pieces. And gradually build up from there into the more complex pieces.

Just a thought,

Mike

 

[JayeNM]

Hmmmm interesting.... Thanks

One other thing I just wanna add here...

You know, PERFECTLY OK to just play sheet music as written and just get good at THAT. That isn't negligible.

Most Forum members here, I think, are jazzers, bluesers, maybe some rock/poppers...all of which have some sorta improv often associated with it....

....so our tendency here is to assume that is the eventual GOAL OF EVERY PLAYER.

But there are PLENTY OF SAX PLAYERS who really just wanna be GOOD at accurately reading their parts off of charts. Develop a nice tone. Develop a good sense of DYNAMICS (volume).

For example...

College band/orchestra/marching players. There are two colleges within 30 miles of each other here both with music programs...a lotta young players in those programs just wanna be good at learning and performing their parts. So good that they can either teach or try out for bands in larger cities or do pit orchestra work.

Likewise Big Band players. 2nd alto, 2nd tenor, baritone....3rd and 4th 'bone...1st, 3rd, 4th trumpet....those chairs do not need to know A LICK OF IMPROV....zilch, zero.

They do need to be good readers, develop good phrasing, and execute their parts well, though.

Another example...

Pop or Soul/Funk horn sections in gigging bands. Oftentimes say you have three or four horns...unlikely all of them are gonna be elbowing each other out of the way to solo on most every tune. More common in a 3+ horn section there is ONE primary horn soloist, or if a 4 section perhaps TWO trading off in tunes...and the other two players are just there to execute their parts correctly and precisely....IOW they are SECTION PLAYERS first and foremost.

THAT is nothing to be sneezed at. To get to doing that is perfectly commendable.

 

[Jeanette]

One other thing I just wanna add here...

You know, PERFECTLY OK to just play sheet music as written and just get good at THAT. That isn't negligible.

Most Forum members here, I think, are jazzers, bluesers, maybe some rock/poppers...all of which have some sorta improv often associated with it....

....so our tendency here is to assume that is the eventual GOAL OF EVERY PLAYER.

But there are PLENTY OF SAX PLAYERS who really just wanna be GOOD at accurately reading their parts off of charts. Develop a nice tone. Develop a good sense of DYNAMICS (volume).

For example...

College band/orchestra/marching players. There are two colleges within 30 miles of each other here both with music programs...a lotta young players in those programs just wanna be good at learning and performing their parts. So good that they can either teach or try out for bands in larger cities or do pit orchestra work.

Likewise Big Band players. 2nd alto, 2nd tenor, baritone....3rd and 4th 'bone...1st, 3rd, 4th trumpet....those chairs do not need to know A LICK OF IMPROV....zilch, zero.

They do need to be good readers, develop good phrasing, and execute their parts well, though.

Another example...

Pop or Soul/Funk horn sections in gigging bands. Oftentimes say you have three or four horns...unlikely all of them are gonna be elbowing each other out of the way to solo on most every tune. More common in a 3+ horn section there is ONE primary horn soloist, or if a 4 section perhaps TWO trading off in tunes...and the other two players are just there to execute their parts correctly and precisely....IOW they are SECTION PLAYERS first and foremost.

THAT is nothing to be sneezed at. To get to doing that is perfectly commendable.

That's me!

Jx

 

[Ivan]

...think I try to concentrate and read the sheet music that I forget that I'm trying to play music

So, in a way, you can see the sense of playing without music at least some of the time (@JayeNM is correct in what he says about sheet music skills)

It may not be all that easy to play without music... But well worth trying it out...

To develop expression and to move your playing from what you see on the page to what you hear, you could even learn part of a slow number, just the first phrase or two, like that third number you played, and try changing expression... Legato/Staccato/Fortissimo etc but play without the backing track, and listen to yourself... Go wild, and again listen to yourself and decide what your ears like...

 

[MikeMorrell]

I wish I could get away from the sheet music and play less robotic/tense like. I think I try to concentrate and read the sheet music that I forget that I'm trying to play music. Your comment definitely resonated with me.

I thoroughly agree with @JayeNM's comment above. In many community bands, Big Bands, etc, it's a basic requirement to be able to play 'sheet music' as written! Or to quickly learn how to do this. I play in an amateur Big band of about 18 members (5 saxes, 4 trumpets, 4 trombones and a rhythm section of drummer, keyboards, guitar and bass. And usually a vocalist who's the only member (with the exception of instrument soloists) who's allowed - and encouraged - to 'play around' with her timing and dynamics.

You can well imagine what such a band of 18 players would sound like if everyone had 'their own 'individual interpretation' of timing and 'dynamics'. So playing precisely from written sheet music is the only thing that helps the band sound like 'a band'!

An advantage of playing in a community band/Big Band is that these kinds of bands usually have a repertoire that consists of something like:
- 'standards' in the sense of tunes/songs that they've rehearsed and played for years
- 'upcoming' tunes/songs that they've rehearsed and maybe played a few times
- 'new' tunes/songs' that they've rehearsed and feel ready to perform for the first time
- 'in development' tunes/songs that they're rehearsing but are still not ready to perform

What does this have to do with personal practice?
- for your 'standards', the sheet music can be largely a 'reminder'; you know the tune well, including your own part; you can see a 'pattern of notes' across 2, 4 or 8 bars and think 'OK, this section is coming up next'. But you know how to play it without reading each note.
- your 'upcoming tunes' require a bit more visual attention; you know the tune/song and have rehearsed it many times; you can mostly play by recognising 'patterns of notes' which you know how to play'; but there may still be a few 'tricky bits' or 'specials' where you have to look a lot more closely at 2, 4 or 8 bars to get it right (with your annotations)
- your 'new' tunes/songs' are those which you've rehearsed numerous times but for which you're perhaps still a bit nervous about performing for the first time.

Just my personal experience and opinion. It's entirely up to you whether this helps you or not. My point is that you maybe don't always to read sheet music 'note for note'. If you're familiar with the tune and how to play it, you could experiment with 'zooming out' in recognizing 'patterns of notes' (that you already know how to play) and 'zooming in' on any sections that you're still uncertain of.

OT: I play also tenor sax in an (amateur) pop/rock band. My 'music' (on a Tablet) is lyrics + (concert C) chords with some hand-scribbled annotations by me. At last week's rehearsal (for the first time ever!), I left my Tablet at home. So I just had to 'wing it' at my band rehearsal. To my amazement and delight I still remembered 95% of what I was supposed to play and when. So the thought struck me that maybe 'staring into my Tablet' the whole time had become more of a 'habit' than really necessary.

 

[JayeNM]

I thoroughly agree with @JayeNM's comment above. In many community bands, Big Bands, etc, it's a basic requirement to be able to play 'sheet music' as written!u

OT: I play also tenor sax in an (amateur) pop/rock band. My 'music' (on a Tablet) is lyrics + (concert C) chords with some hand-scribbled annotations by me. At last week's rehearsal (for the first time ever!), I left my Tablet at home. So I just had to 'wing it' at my band rehearsal. To my amazement and delight I still remembered 95% of what I was supposed to play and when. So the thought struck me that maybe 'staring into my Tablet' the whole time had become more of a 'habit' than really necessary.

Happens to everyone, eventually. Grab the wrong book on your way out the door, or phone or tablet battery runs out at venue, lol....

Good thing to happen, really makes you dig deep.....and usually, one discovers you can manage it quite OK....